Rogue Startups

RS360: Kill the Hippo

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Key takeaways

  • Deep, ongoing customer conversations are critical for making the right product decisions, especially in a market flooded with options.
  • Writing a book or sharing expertise can serve as both a personal milestone and a way to establish thought leadership, but requires perseverance and community support.
  • Mature SaaS products need constant, small improvements and periodic redesigns to prevent stagnation and ensure relevance.
  • The SaaS landscape has shifted significantly in recent years, making traditional channels like SEO less effective, and demanding agile, innovative approaches to customer acquisition and product development.
  • Founders should be prepared to continually refine their target customer profiles, adapt to market changes, and consider new models such as AI-driven products to stay competitive.

Summary

The Art of Product Decision-Making and Customer Feedback

This section explores the challenges SaaS companies face in deciding what features or products to build next. Steve McLeod discusses the importance of deep customer engagement beyond surveys, emphasizing talking directly with customers to understand their true needs and avoid building features based solely on popular demand. The discussion underscores the necessity of identifying your actual ideal customer profile (ICP) and continuously refining it to ensure product relevance and growth. Examples include companies discovering their true end users through diligent customer conversations and adjusting their strategies accordingly.

Writing 'Kill the Hippo' and Lessons from Customer Stories

Steve shares his experience in writing 'Kill the Hippo', a book born out of customer case studies. Initially planned as a collection of frameworks, it evolved into a narrative driven by real stories from bootstrapped SaaS founders. These stories highlight mistakes, lessons learned, and the importance of understanding customer needs. The book aims to provide practical, real-world insights into product development, emphasizing that talking to customers regularly and deeply is the most valuable approach. Steve also reflects on the process of writing, publishing, and marketing the book, including the significance of reviews and community engagement.

Evolving and Maintaining SaaS Products in a Mature Market

This section discusses strategies for SaaS companies with established products to stay relevant and continue growing. Steve emphasizes the importance of small, incremental improvements—a steady velocity of features and UI enhancements—rather than stagnation or overloading the product. He explains that even mature companies must revisit their ICP, redesign interfaces periodically, and look for 'Wow' moments that delight users. The concept of 'catching up' with changing customer expectations without alienating existing users is central, along with stories of companies rediscovering their original target markets.

The Changing Landscape of SaaS and Future Challenges

Here, Steve and Craig analyze how the SaaS landscape has shifted over the past decade. They reflect on the 'golden age' of bootstrapped SaaS, which is over, and discuss how market channels like SEO and content marketing have become less effective due to increased competition and changing algorithms. Steve expresses that starting new SaaS businesses now is more difficult, citing the rise of AI and alternative channels such as organic social media for customer acquisition. They acknowledge the need to adapt by building faster, more viral, and often freemium-based products, especially in emerging trends like AI-driven tools and 'Rapper' models, where companies deliver AI interfaces.

The Future of SaaS, Repositioning, and Insightful Advice for Founders

This final section emphasizes that today's SaaS founders operate in a drastically different environment than a decade ago. Steve and Craig discuss the importance of flexibility in positioning, continuous customer research, and the necessity of building new channels for growth. They warn against complacency, suggest focusing on core improvements, and highlight the importance of listening to both existing and future target customers. Steve advocates for embracing new business models such as AI runners and leveraging networks and organic reach creatively to sustain and grow SaaS ventures.

Sponsors

  • Castos · Castos Free Tools: castos.com/tools

Show notes

If you're building a SaaS company, one of the hardest questions you'll face isn't how to build a product. It's what to build next.

In this episode of Rogue Startups, Craig Hewitt talks with Steve McLeod, founder of Feature Upvote and author of Kill the Hippo, about product strategy, customer research, and why the loudest customer isn't always the one you should listen to. Steve shares lessons from interviewing successful bootstrapped SaaS founders, explains why talking directly with customers beats relying on surveys and feature voting alone, and discusses how companies can avoid building the wrong features.

Craig and Steve also explore Steve's journey writing Kill the Hippo, Feature Upvote's successful pivot into the gaming industry, the realities of running a mature SaaS business, and how AI is changing product development and customer acquisition. They close with an honest conversation about the future of bootstrapped SaaS and why today's founders face a very different landscape than they did just a decade ago.

Whether you're launching your first startup or leading an established software company, this episode is full of practical advice on product management, customer feedback, ideal customer profiles (ICP), founder decision-making, and sustainable SaaS growth.

In this episode: 

00:00 Why Building the Right Product Matters

01:43 Why Steve Wrote Kill the Hippo

03:09 The Pivot That Changed Feature Upvote

04:36 Why the Most Popular Feature Is Usually Wrong

06:26 Talk to Customers, Not Just Surveys

08:19 Finding Your Real Ideal Customer

13:05 How Kill the Hippo Came Together

16:59 Why Steve Wanted to Write a Book

19:04 The Reality of Being a Solo Founder

21:06 Are Product Prioritization Frameworks Worth It?

23:54 Hiring People Who Think Like Your Customers

27:45 Building for Future Customers Without Losing Today's

29:24 Product Strategy for Mature SaaS Companies

31:26 Avoiding the "Abandoned Product" Trap

34:00 How Mature SaaS Teams Ship New Features

36:19 Build Features That Make Customers Say "Wow"

38:20 Is SaaS Really Dead?

42:35 The Golden Age of Bootstrapped SaaS

Resources and Links:

- Feature Upvote: https://featureupvote.com/  

- Steve on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-mcleod-fuv/ 

- Castos Free Tools: castos.com/tools

- Email me: podcast@roguestartups.com 

- Find me on Twitter: @TheCraigHewitt

- Craig on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/craig-hewitt-78386a66  

If you feel Rogue Startups has benefited you and might benefit someone else, please share it with them. If you have a chance, give Rogue Startups a review on iTunes. 

Chapters

  • (00:00:00) - Knowing What Product to Build in the SaaS Age
  • (00:01:45) - Writing a Book About Pivoting
  • (00:04:14) - How to Decide What to Build Next
  • (00:10:27) - Have You Changed Your ICP?
  • (00:12:37) - Writing The Bootstrap Book
  • (00:16:26) - What are you hoping the book does for you?
  • (00:18:08) - In the Elevator With a Co-founder
  • (00:23:10) - The Importance of Talking to Customers
  • (00:27:54) - How Do You Keep Your Product From Getting Stuck?
  • (00:30:04) - A Design for Less Annoying CRM
  • (00:32:24) - How To Evolve a Matured Product
  • (00:34:47) - The Need for a 'Wow'
  • (00:36:25) - SaaS and the future of podcast
  • (00:40:56) - Bootstrapped SaaS: The Golden Age is Over
  • (00:42:40) - Kill the Hippo

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