Rogue Startups

RS349: Ranking In ChatGPT with Devesh Khanal

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Key takeaways

  • Focus on bottom-of-funnel SEO, as it drives higher conversion rates than top-of-funnel content.
  • Understand user intent when creating content to ensure your brand ranks well in both Google searches and LLMs.
  • Avoid producing generic and fluffy content; focus on depth and addressing specific customer pain points.
  • Strategically position your brand in conversations happening within LLMs by ensuring your content is linked to relevant search queries.
  • Tools like WaveWriter can enhance AI-assisted writing by incorporating deeper brand insights and value propositions.

Summary

The New Era of AI SEO

Devesh Khanal from Grow and Convert discusses how companies can ensure their brands are prominently displayed in AI-driven search results, particularly in Large Language Models (LLMs) like ChatGPT. He likens the current situation to the advent of Facebook ads in 2012, suggesting that businesses must adapt to a rapidly changing marketing landscape. The focus is on understanding user intent behind search queries, particularly differentiating between bottom-of-funnel queries that indicate a readiness to purchase and top-of-funnel queries that serve informational purposes.

The Impact of SEO Strategies

Devesh emphasizes the importance of prioritizing bottom-of-funnel SEO, which targets users closer to making a purchasing decision. He shares insights from years of client experiences showing that optimizing for keywords related to product searches results in significantly higher conversion rates compared to general informational posts. This strategy continues to yield results even with the rise of LLMs, as users searching for specific products are still looking for links to those products.

Challenges Presented by LLMs and Google AI

The discussion shifts towards the implications of LLMs on digital marketing. Devesh addresses concerns about decreased traffic due to LLMs like ChatGPT not directing users to specific websites. However, he notes that companies focusing on bottom-funnel keywords can still thrive, as LLMs understand user intent and direct queries toward brands listed in SEO results.

Pushing Past Generic Content

Devesh warns against producing ‘fluff’ content that lacks depth and value. He argues that using AI writing tools without proper context leads to generic content that fails to engage the audience. Instead, brands should leverage insights from Pain Point SEO, focusing on creating content that specifically addresses customer pain points and needs.

Leveraging Community and Brand Recommendations

Devesh discusses the effectiveness of community-driven content promotion, such as Reddit, contrasting it with strategic brand positioning through bottom-funnel content. He suggests companies should focus on how they communicate their value propositions and create content that speaks to the potential customer’s needs.

Embracing a Changing Landscape with WaveWriter

Building on the discussion, Devesh talks about their new AI writing tool, WaveWriter, which aims to integrate brand-specific knowledge into AI-generated content. This tool is designed to help content creators produce better marketing copy that aligns closely with customer pain and specific business offerings, rather than relying on generic AI templates.

Sponsors

  • Growth Rock · Devesh runs Growth Rock, a conversion optimization agency that helps e-commerce brands increase online sales through user research, usability testing, analytics evaluations, and A/B testing.

Show notes

Today on Rogue Startups, Craig sits with Devesh Khanal from Grow and Convert to talk about how to get your brand showing up at the top of search results in LLMs. They dive deep into the world of AI SEO—covering everything from debunking myths about large language models to sharing actionable strategies for ranking your content in both Google and AI-driven search tools.

Devesh is the “convert” side of Grow and Convert. In addition to co-founding the company, he runs Growth Rock, a conversion optimization agency that helps e-commerce brands increase online sales through user research, usability testing, analytics evaluations, and A/B testing. Before launching into the marketing world, Devesh worked on financial strategy and cost modeling for a biofuels startup—and he also holds a Ph.D. in Materials Science and Engineering from U.C. Berkeley.

Highlights from Craig and Devesh’s conversation:

  • Bottom-of-funnel SEO vs. top-of-funnel queries
  • How to use LLMs as a marketing tool
  • Debunking common myths about LLMs in SEO
  • Does community content promotion (like Reddit) actually work?
  • The correlation between Google rankings and LLM results
  • Identifying customer pain points and achieving product–market fit
  • Why to avoid “fluff” writers and generic AI writing tools

Resources and Links from This Episode:

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Chapters

  • (00:00:00) - How to get your brand to show up in ChatGPT or
  • (00:01:21) - Why Our Traffic's Down 50% vs. 2 years ago
  • (00:08:29) - ChatGPT's Google Rankings
  • (00:09:47) - Pushing the Bottom of the Marketing Flourish
  • (00:13:33) - Tim Ferriss: The Bottom of the Sales Cycle
  • (00:16:21) - Category keywords and alternatives: What is SEM
  • (00:18:49) - The 3 Types of Jobs in the SEO Market
  • (00:21:23) - How to Get Your Bottom-of- Content to Rank in
  • (00:30:05) - Don't Get On Reddit
  • (00:35:36) - How to Get Your Lead Generation Solutions Recommended by LLMs
  • (00:40:03) - Can You Rank in LLMs With ChatGPT?
  • (00:45:30) - Do We Need AI in Our Jobs?
  • (00:50:48) - Is AI Taking Over Your Business?
  • (00:53:07) - Waverider vs. AI in Marketing Writing
  • (00:59:06) - Grow and Convert: The AI Writing Tool

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