The Long Game with Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer

Is Ukraine Now Winning the War Against Russia? (w/Michael Kofman)

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Key takeaways

  • Ukraine has gained a strategic advantage and is in its strongest position since 2023, largely due to battlefield adaptations such as drone innovation.
  • Decentralized, rapid development of indigenous Ukrainian defense technology—particularly drones—has been crucial in offsetting Ukraine's manpower and munitions deficits.
  • Russian tactics have become less effective, and their failures to adapt have led to stagnation on the battlefield, with casualties and recruitment issues limiting their capacity.
  • The future of the war depends heavily on external political support, especially Western aid, and convincing Russian leadership of the futility of continued conflict.
  • Escalation beyond Ukraine into NATO territory, including gray zone tactics like drone incursions, remains a significant risk, potentially leading to regional escalation.
  • A sustained and coordinated Western support, especially in high-tech defense capabilities, remains vital for Ukraine’s ability to press its advantage.

Summary

Current State of the Russia-Ukraine War and Recent Shifts

This section discusses the evolving dynamics of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, emphasizing that Ukraine is currently in its strongest position since 2023. The conversation highlights how Ukraine has managed to regain some territory and how the Russian military's offensive is beginning to lose steam. Michael Kofman explains that Ukraine has adapted tactically—particularly through the use of drones and innovative battlefield strategies—that offset Russia's traditional advantages, thereby shifting the balance of power on the frontlines. He also notes that Russia's strategy of grinding down Ukraine through continuous strikes has diminished in effectiveness, and the conflict is moving into a phase where Ukraine might sustain its gains and contest Russian advances more effectively.

Ukrainian Military Innovation and Strategy

This section delves into Ukraine’s remarkable adaptation in warfare technology and tactics, especially their investment in and decentralization of drone technology. Ukraine's defense industry has become highly innovative, developing indigenous drone capabilities, integrating forces with technology, and creating a resilient defense ecosystem. The use of drones and electronic warfare has allowed Ukraine to compensate for its manpower and munitions deficits. The decentralization and rapid iteration of defense startups within Ukraine’s military structure have been crucial in maintaining an advantage. Experts discuss the significance of access to technologies like commercial and Chinese components and how Ukraine’s close integration of defense sectors with operational units represents a unique and effective model in modern warfare.

Russian Strategy and Challenges in the War

This part analyzes the Russian military’s approaches, such as infiltration tactics that involved small units bypassing drone defenses to gain territory, and how their tactics have become less effective as Ukraine adapts. Russian casualties and recruitment challenges are significant, leading to difficulties in maintaining reserves and fighting capacity. Russia’s failure to evolve tactics despite high losses has contributed to their stagnation on the battlefield. The conversation explores how Russia might escalate tactics, including increased missile strikes on Ukrainian infrastructure and potential gray zone tactics involving NATO, like drone incursions into NATO airspace, which could lead to broader regional escalation.

The Future Trajectory and Potential End of the War

This section assesses whether Ukraine is likely to sustain its breakthrough and how the war might conclude. Kofman predicts that Ukraine’s advantages are likely to be maintained in the near term, with further limited counterattacks possible. He discusses the difficulty in predicting war outcomes, due to external factors like Western support and Russian political decision-making. The conversation emphasizes Russia’s ongoing miscalculations, including overestimating their military capacity and underestimating Ukraine’s resilience and Western backing. The discussion also covers the importance of convincing Russian leadership that continuing the war is futile and explores the complexities of negotiations, with Ukraine hesitant to settle from a position of weakness.

U.S. and Western Support in the Ukraine Conflict

This section emphasizes the critical importance of Western military assistance, especially air and missile defenses, for Ukraine’s continued resilience. Kofman highlights Ukraine’s successful use of decentralized defense industrial bases and indigenous production, particularly for drones and electronic warfare, which has been pivotal in offsetting manpower shortages. The discussion touches on the unpredictability of Western support, including future policies of the U.S. and European allies, and how external shocks like conflicts involving Iran or shifts in U.S. policy could impact Ukraine’s capabilities. The need for sustained, coordinated support is portrayed as essential for Ukraine to capitalize on its current momentum.

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Show notes

More than four years into the Russia-Ukraine war, has the battlefield finally begun to shift?

Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer sit down with Michael Kofman, one of the leading analysts of the conflict, fresh off a trip to Ukraine's frontlines. Kofman argues that Ukraine is in its strongest position since 2023 and explains why Russia's grinding offensive may be running out of steam. Together, they discuss how Ukraine used drones and battlefield innovation to offset Russian advantages, why Moscow's military strategy is producing diminishing returns, and what it would take to translate recent developments on the battlefield into a lasting political settlement.

They discuss:

Why Kofman believes Ukraine has gained the advantage for the first time in years

How drones and decentralized defense production have transformed the battlefield

Whether Russia can be convinced that continuing the war is futile

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