Corruption in a Shameless Age (with Patrick Radden Keefe)

The hosts introduce Patrick Radden Keefe, an acclaimed investigative journalist and staff writer at The New Yorker. The episode explores themes such as London’s economic transformation, global corruption, political accountability, and investigative journalism. The discussion also touches on Patrick’s recent book, London Falling, which investigates the city’s dark-money economy, and his earlier works like Say Nothing and Empire of Pain. The episode emphasizes the importance of narrative storytelling in journalism and the challenges posed by modern digital consumption.

Patrick discusses his recent book, London Falling, which examines how London transformed from an industrial port city into a global hub for anonymous foreign investment, particularly from illicit sources. He describes how London’s lenient regulations and culture of secrecy facilitated money laundering and illicit capital flows, especially after deregulation in the 1980s. The episode also explores the impact of recent sanctions on Russian oligarchs post-Ukraine invasion, noting some positive regulatory moves but also ongoing loopholes like the non-dom tax status. Patrick highlights how these systemic issues are not unique to London but are emblematic of broader Western financial systems, including the U.S., where illicit capital continues to flow through real estate and banking channels.

The conversation delves into the craft of investigative journalism, with Patrick reflecting on his meticulous research process—where only a small fraction of the reporting makes it into final stories. He discusses the impact of digital media on attention spans, the importance of long-form narrative storytelling, and the challenge of maintaining trust in a climate of skepticism and misinformation. The hosts and Patrick consider how established outlets like the New Yorker can still serve as trusted sources, especially as consumers gravitate toward individual influencers or segmented media.

Patrick examines the moral dimension of his investigative work, emphasizing his interest in characters driven by self-delusion and rationalization rather than pure malice. He discusses how villains often see themselves as heroes and how understanding their psychological makeup critiques the simplistic good-versus-evil narrative. He also reflects on the moral weighing involved in exposing truths, including decisions to identify individuals responsible for past crimes, as he did in Say Nothing.

The episode explores Patrick’s book, Say Nothing, which deals with the Troubles in Northern Ireland. He explains the political necessity of collective amnesia in the Good Friday Agreement, which avoided confronting the full truth of past atrocities. Patrick reflects on his decision to identify a specific individual responsible for a notorious murder, discussing the moral and practical implications of such disclosures for accountability and historical memory. The discussion underscores the importance of micro-level storytelling in understanding deep-rooted conflicts and the human cost of unresolved histories.

Patrick touches on systemic issues in global capitalism, referencing how London and other Western financial centers act as environments where illicit money can circulate with minimal oversight. The episode discusses how recent political factors—such as sanctions or policy reforms in London and the US—are attempts to address these systemic problems, but loopholes remain. The conversation highlights the intertwined nature of global politics, finance, and morality.

Patrick discusses his podcast series, Wind of Change, which investigates whether the CIA authored the famous song by the Scorpions as part of a covert influence operation. While he finds it unlikely that the CIA directly wrote the song, he suggests that the US intelligence community may have played a role in promoting or propagating it through the underground music scene. The podcast exemplifies investigative storytelling that walks the line between fact and speculation, emphasizing the cultural dimensions of Cold War espionage.

The hosts and Patrick reflect on how podcasting, digital media, and AI are transforming investigative journalism. Patrick notes that long-form narrative podcasts like Wind of Change are less common now, as the industry shifts toward shorter, conversational formats. They discuss the challenges of maintaining credibility and trust in an age where misinformation is rampant, and how consumers tend to segment their media diets, trusting some outlets over others. Patrick emphasizes the enduring value of well-researched, narrative journalism as a form of truth-telling.