Episode 140: Lost boys & The Lost Boys

Billy Garvey and Nick discuss finally making the long-promised episode about The Lost Boys, a film Billy places in his top ten. They joke about the movie’s age—39 years—and recall its vampire characters, Kiefer Sutherland’s striking presence, and the famous saxophone scene. They also reflect on completing a seven-show, six-city tour, with every capital-city show sold out. Perth had the biggest energy, while Adelaide was Nick’s favourite because it was their first show outside Victoria. They describe the tour as a privilege, though Nick found meeting listeners emotionally draining and Billy joked about his performance talent.

In the “Griswolds” segment, Billy admits returning from the tour and immediately criticising his partner Henry’s changed household routine, despite having been away for several days. He realises he was not wrong about the routine but “wasn’t in charge,” borrowing a Dolly Parton-style formulation. Nick then describes having only one day with his children in a week and spending much of it on his phone. When five-year-old Evie slapped the phone from his hand and said, “You’re always on your phone,” she apologised, but Nick acknowledged that her criticism was accurate—even though he was only looking up Rocky Road ingredients.

Billy’s “Winslow” is that agitation and anger have recently warned him that his depression may be returning. Uncertainty about where his family will live, the future of the social enterprise, his career and his children has left him easily irritated. He tells Nick that he apologised to his partner, Annalise, and found the apology immediately reconnecting. Billy contrasts this with the way many people grew up without seeing parents, teachers or men say sorry because apologies were treated as weakness. He connects the moment to Evie’s apology: children learn the meaning and power of repair by watching it, not simply by being instructed to apologise.

Billy explains why The Lost Boys is a useful metaphor. The film follows single mother Lucy and her sons Michael and Sam after they move to Santa Clara, where Michael becomes involved with a group of vampire boys living outside mainstream society. Billy sees Sam—a tender, colourful, independent character—as an alternative expression of masculinity, while the Frog Brothers represent a more conventional, aggressive version. The vampires are literally lost and unable to grow up, but Billy uses them to represent boys who cannot find a healthy social identity. They seek belonging while being pushed to the fringes, where unhealthy beliefs can develop.

Billy distinguishes masculinity from a narrow, inflexible version of it: boys are told to be stoic, tough, confident, dominant and physically strong, while anger becomes the only acceptable emotion and asking for help is forbidden. He and Nick agree that the issue is rigidity—the claim that there is only one legitimate way to be a man. Boys who do not fit that model, including queer boys and boys from minority cultural backgrounds, can be treated as outsiders. Billy says these beliefs increase depression, anxiety, self-harm and suicide; suicide is the leading cause of death in Australia for ages 15 to 45, and males are three times more likely to die by suicide.

Billy argues that boys are taught gender expectations before birth and that “boys will be boys” excuses behaviour ranging from toddlers hitting and snatching toys to teenagers objectifying women. He describes research in which boys change their play when another boy or man watches: they move away from dolls or gender-neutral toys toward traditionally masculine toys, while girls and women do not provoke the same shift. Nick initially suggests this may simply be boys copying one another, but Billy says older boys and men actively police vulnerability and weakness. He stresses that serious violence develops through thousands of smaller, tolerated behaviours in playgrounds, locker rooms and peer groups.

Billy links rigid masculine beliefs to later harm without claiming that every boy who behaves badly will become violent. Men who identify with these beliefs, he says, are eight times more likely to sexually assault a future partner and 17 times more likely to hit one. He uses being cut off in traffic to illustrate how men may know only aggression as a response. He also criticises unequal domestic roles: when fathers present themselves as the household authority while mothers provide the care, children learn that men are entitled to power and exempt from caregiving. Nick agrees that his shared responsibilities with Henry model gender equality for their daughters.

Billy says boys involved in theft, weapons or repeated offending should be understood as “lost boys,” not simply punished; he cites an 85% reoffending rate within 12 months after imprisonment. Early language, impulse-control and social difficulties should be identified before harmful beliefs harden. He advocates calling out the belief or behaviour—such as objectifying women or mocking emotional vulnerability—without declaring the child bad. Respectful Relationships programs should teach communication, consent, boundaries, self-respect, conflict resolution and recognising when someone is struggling. Billy’s research found inconsistent school delivery, including one educator realising he had been leaving the program to a substitute teacher, even though it must be embedded across school life.

Nick asks how to distinguish ordinary teasing from bullying. Billy says healthy banter is mutual, strengthens a relationship and occurs alongside emotional support, self-disclosure and conflict resolution. Bullying involves a power imbalance, an intention to harm and repetition—for example, a boss repeatedly mocking an employee. The same principle applies to gendered behaviour: communities should not dismiss harmful conduct as a phase or as “just boys being boys.” The people most vulnerable to harm—girls, queer students and racial minorities—should determine whether a school or club feels safe. Leaders must support people who raise concerns rather than protecting influential boys or institutions.

The hosts discuss how girls’ opportunities have broadened while boys are still pushed toward narrow roles. A girl playing football attracts little comment, but a boy caring for a doll, choosing ballet, nursing, teaching or hairdressing may still be judged. Billy says fathers are the strongest reported influence on many teenagers: boys need to see men ask for help, share caregiving and show vulnerability. He admits he still experiences stoicism as part of his identity because men who should have helped him previously failed or threatened him. Nick recognises his own uncertainty and discomfort, while Billy calls Nick’s willingness to learn and create emotional safety a form of healthy masculinity.

Discussing a scene in which Michael looks beaten and withdrawn, Nick says the mother’s concern is right but her rapid demands—“Take off your glasses” and explain what happened—create pressure. Billy would begin by stating what he has observed, saying he is worried, and leaving the door open for more than one conversation. They reject the idea that boys should simply distance themselves as they age or gain identity through popularity, athletic success and sexual conquest. Their proposed response is to identify isolated boys early, maintain clear boundaries and consequences, while communicating that the boy remains wanted in the community and can help build safer values.