Will Bitcoin's New Phase Change It Forever? And Is the 4-Year Cycle Dead? - Ep. 974

The crypto sector has celebrated a lot of policy wins in 2025, but price wise, it has arguably been a year to forget.

In this episode of Unchained, Bitwise Head of Research Ryan Rasmussen and Arca Portfolio Manager David Nage join host Laura Shin to discuss the disappointing crypto markets and why their outlook on 2026 is more positive.

They also explained why Vanguard's crypto pivot is a huge deal, questioned whether Bitcoin could ever be unseated by privacy coins, and discussed why they don’t see the bubble in the DAT market hurting crypto.

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Guests:

Ryan Rasmussen, Head of Research at Bitwise

David Nage, Portfolio Manager at Arca

Previous appearance on Unchained:

The LayerZero-Wormhole Contest Shows How to Value a Crypto Business

Links:

Unchained:

Bitcoin Resets Above $90,000, but Can Bulls Keep the Momentum?

Bits + Bips: Vanguard’s Crypto U-Turn, Tether/MSTR FUD & Picking Future Winners

Bits + Bips: Why the Markets Now Have a Bullish Setup

Franklin Templeton Rolls Out First Tokenized Fund in Hong Kong

Why Every Company Will Have a Stablecoin — and Why One L2 Isn’t Enough

Grayscale Files to List Zcash ETF

What Ethereum Will Look Like When It Implements Its New Privacy Focus

Other relevant links:

Bank of America Broadens Access to Crypto Funds

SEC's Paul Atkins touts 'tokenization’ as key to modernizing US markets

Larry Fink and Rob Goldstein on how tokenization could transform finance

My Highest-Conviction Bet in Crypto

Stablecoin payments on Stripe cost 1.5% of the transaction amount. Credit card fees are as high as 3.5%. Less than half of the cost!

Bitcoin’s “Facebook Moment” 

Timestamps:

🚀 00:00 Introduction

🤔 01:42 Is the four-year cycle dead? 

💡 3:50 Why David says Bitcoin is having its “Facebook moment”

⚡️ 11:42 Why Ryan does not believe Bitcoin OGs are disillusioned

💥 14:43 Why David thinks liquidity may be returning to the market 

❕️ 17:21 What is driving Vanguard and Bank of America's adoption of crypto

🚨 24:34 The importance of Bitwise 10 Crypto Index Fund's ETF transition

💡 28:30 Why BITW excludes memecoins, stablecoins and, wrapped tokens, etc.

🔮 31:15 What tokenization means for the future of finance

👀 35:56 What the future holds for digital asset treasuries

⚠️ 39:45 How unwinding of DATs could affect Bitcoin

🧏 41:11 What Stripe's 1.5% fees suggest about the future of stablecoin competition 

📈 46:43 Why David says stablecoin adoption is similar to email

🤔 48:55 Could Bitcoin be toppled as the privacy meta rises?

🔮 56:45 Ryan and David share their 2026 crypto outlook

✴️ 1:02:01 Ryan’s 2026 Bitcoin price target

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