REWORK
Listener Questions / AMA
· Summarized
Key takeaways
- Avoid rigid design systems for small teams; use the product itself as the design guide, allowing for organic consistency and evolution.
- Trust and clear roles are crucial in decision-making; most decisions, big or small, can be temporary and revisable without lengthy debates.
- Small, autonomous teams of two (designer and developer) can effectively handle product development without traditional product managers, promoting ownership and agility.
- Having managers invent work for others can be detrimental; leaders should focus on roles that free teams to make decisions and own their work.
- Fostering trust and independence within the team enables faster, more effective decision-making and a healthier, more creative work environment.
Summary
Design Philosophy: Context Over Consistency
Jason and David discuss their approach to design, emphasizing that their product itself serves as the primary design system for 37signals. They prioritize context-based design decisions, allowing for flexibility and evolution rather than rigid adherence to a predefined style guide. They argue that large organizations often rely on strict design systems to standardize appearances across many teams, but for smaller teams like theirs, a more organic, context-driven approach fosters creativity and ownership. They caution against the drawbacks of time-consuming design systems, which can lock teams into past decisions and stifle innovation, advocating instead for a looser, more adaptable process that naturally encourages consistency within their products.
Conflict Resolution and Decision-Making Styles
The hosts explain that serious conflicts are rare within their team due to high levels of trust and alignment. They discuss that most decisions are temporary and easily revisable, emphasizing the importance of not attaching too much sacredness to individual decisions. Jason and David describe their collaborative decision-making process, which involves trade-offs, mutual respect, and understanding each other's domains of expertise. They highlight that decisions often do not require lengthy debates, especially when trust is present, and they value a setup where each person’s role is clear—such as Jason as the product manager and David as the technical expert—thus avoiding unnecessary bureaucracy and promoting swift, effective decision-making.
Approach to Product Management and Team Structure
Jason and David outline their unconventional approach to product management, where they do not employ traditional product managers but rely on small, autonomous teams of two—one designer and one programmer—for most product development. They stress that this structure enhances ownership, agility, and direct communication. They clarify that their process involves tools and automation that help gather and share information efficiently, reducing the need for constant oversight. The founders also express skepticism about the role of traditional management, emphasizing that having managers create unnecessary work can hamper productivity. Instead, they foster a culture of independence where teams are empowered to make decisions and manage their own work, with leadership roles like CTO or CEO being more fluid and occasional.
Sponsors
- Basecamp · Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
- Hey · Visit HEY World for more information on HEY
Show notes
In this episode of Rework, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to answer questions posed by Rework listeners.
Listen in as they share their insights and experiences in running a successful software company by answering questions from podcast listeners on topics such as 37signals' approach to design, decision-making processes, product management, and balancing managerial roles and responsibilities.
Tune in to hear their unique perspectives on these key aspects of building a successful software company.
Show Notes:
[00:23] - Noel asks David and Jason about their philosophy on design systems and using components instead of reinventing the wheel every time.
[01:01] - Jason explains that 37signals' website is a collection of ideas. The product itself is their design system.
[03:07] - As with Basecamp and Hey, design consistency can emerge naturally.
[03:30] - David shares that large organizations typically use design systems to standardize processes.
[05:34] - Why it makes sense for individual designers to have ownership over the design process for small teams like 37signals.
[06:52] - Listener Paul asks how David and Jason resolve conflicts and make difficult decisions.
[07:02] - Jason explains conflicts are rare among the team and shares how they handle the things they don't agree on (without keeping score).
[08:18] - Why it's important to remember most decisions are temporary.
[08:59] - Jason shares an example of the rare occurrences when they might battle. [09:49] - Setting the standards for a smooth workflow.
[11:30] - David's philosophy: "A willingness to try anything as long as there's an expiration on the experiment and a way to tell whether it went one way or the other."
[12:55] - Jason explains why they don't need to consult each other for every decision—even the BIG ones, like leaving the cloud.
[14:28] - Prioritizing independence, competency, and TRUST.
[16:50] - Podcast listener Tim asks Jason and David to discuss 37signals' approach to product management and some of their methods over the years.
[17:20] - David shares how using software to gather and distribute information, allowing teams to make decisions, leads to everyone rowing in the same boat.
[20:19] - Jason adds that with two-person teams, there is a direct relationship between the programmer and designer, and management would get in the way.
[22:21] - Fighting hard against traditional managerial responsibilities because having managers invent work for other people can wreck a good thing (David and Jason only wear the hats of CTO and CEO occasionally).
[23:25] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or email.
Links and Resources:
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
Leaving the Cloud Part 2 | REWORK
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