Working at Amazon as a software engineer – with Dave Anderson · The Pragmatic Engineer summary

Key takeaways

Amazon's engineering culture emphasizes ownership, excellence, and the responsibility of developers to manage their code in production.
The performance management system at Amazon operates with clear expectations but can create pressure due to URA targets.
On-call responsibilities are integral to Amazon's engineering teams, ensuring that the developers who create the code are responsible for it in production.
Frugality is a core principle at Amazon, guiding decision-making and resource allocation, though it can lead to tension around resource availability.
Financial independence is achievable through strategic saving and investment, as demonstrated by Dave's journey from Amazon to early retirement.

Summary

Amazon's Engineering Culture and Structure

In this episode, Dave Anderson shares his insights into Amazon's engineering culture, which is characterized by operational excellence and a deep sense of ownership. He discusses the hierarchical levels within Amazon, from SDE L4 to Distinguished Engineer (VP), detailing how promotions are structured and what criteria are considered at each level. There's a strong focus on writing ability for managers, as clear documentation is necessary for performance management and promotion-related narratives.

Performance Management and Promotions

The conversation delves into Amazon's unique performance management system, which has a target for underperformers known as the URA (Unregular Attrition) target. Dave explains how performance feedback operates, highlighting that while it might be daunting for some, many employees do not find it stressful if they're performing well. The mechanisms of the PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) are clarified, along with the importance of strong relationships with one’s manager.

On-Call Culture and Incident Management

Dave provides a candid look at the on-call culture in Amazon engineering teams, emphasizing that developers are responsible for the code they write, including the consequences of outages. He describes the severity levels of incidents (from SEV-1 to SEV-5) and how they are treated, including the role of senior management in managing major incidents.

The Role of Frugality in Amazon's Operations

The podcast explores Amazon's culture of frugality and how it influences operational decisions. Dave contrasts his experiences at Amazon with other tech companies, noting how frugality leads to efficiency. However, it does sometimes lead to dissatisfaction among engineers, especially when it comes to resources and equipment.

Transitioning from Amazon to Financial Independence

Towards the end, Dave discusses his journey towards financial independence and early retirement. He reflects on his investments and strategic saving while at Amazon and his subsequent decision to shift into writing and coaching, ultimately leading to the creation of his newsletter, Scarlet Ink. He highlights the importance of financial planning and offers advice to those interested in pursuing financial independence.

Show notes

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What is it like to work at Amazon as a software engineer? Dave Anderson spent over 12 years at Amazon working closely with engineers on his teams: starting as an Engineering Manager (or, SDM in Amazon lingo) and eventually becoming a Director of Engineering. In this episode, he shares a candid look into Amazon’s engineering culture—from how promotions work to why teams often run like startups.

We get into the hiring process, the role of bar raisers, the pros and cons of extreme frugality, and what it takes to succeed inside one of the world’s most operationally intense companies.

We also look at how engineering actually works day to day at Amazon—from the tools teams choose to the way they organize and deliver work.

We also discuss:

• The levels at Amazon, from SDE L4 to Distinguished Engineer and VP

• Why engineering managers at Amazon need to write well

• The “Bar Raiser” role in Amazon interview loops

• Why Amazon doesn’t care about what programming language you use in interviews

• Amazon’s oncall process

• The pros and cons of Amazon’s extreme frugality

• What to do if you're getting negative performance feedback

• The importance of having a strong relationship with your manager

• The surprising freedom Amazon teams have to choose their own stack, tools, and ways of working – and how a team chose to use Lisp (!)

• Why startups love hiring former Amazon engineers

• Dave’s approach to financial independence and early retirement

• And more!

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Timestamps

(00:00) Intro

(02:08) An overview of Amazon’s levels for devs and engineering managers

(07:04) How promotions work for developers at Amazon, and the scope of work at each level

(12:29) Why managers feel pressure to grow their teams

(13:36) A step-by-step, behind-the-scenes glimpse of the hiring process

(23:40) The wide variety of tools used at Amazon

(26:27) How oncall works at Amazon

(32:06) The general approach to handling outages (severity 1-5)

(34:40) A story from Uber illustrating the Amazon outage mindset

(37:30) How VPs assist with outages

(41:38) The culture of frugality at Amazon

(47:27) Amazon’s URA target—and why it’s mostly not a big deal

(53:37) How managers handle the ‘least effective’ employees

(58:58) Why other companies are also cutting lower performers

(59:55) Dave’s advice for engineers struggling with performance feedback

(1:04:20) Why good managers are expected to bring talent with them to a new org

(1:06:21) Why startups love former Amazon engineers

(1:16:09) How Dave planned for an early retirement

(1:18:10) How a LinkedIn post turned into Scarlet Ink

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The Pragmatic Engineer deepdives relevant for this episode:

• Inside Amazon’s engineering culture

• A day in the life of a senior manager at Amazon

• Amazon’s Operational Plan process with OP1 and OP2

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See the transcript and other references from the episode at ⁠⁠https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/podcast⁠⁠

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Working at Amazon as a software engineer – with Dave Anderson