The Pragmatic Engineer

Mitchell Hashimoto’s new way of writing code

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Key takeaways

  • Mitchell Hashimoto's journey into coding began as a self-taught programmer during his teen years, leading to the creation of HashiCorp.
  • HashiCorp faced early challenges in commercialization, but successfully transitioned to an open-core model to capture enterprise revenue.
  • Building relationships with cloud providers requires navigating their dynamics and understanding their corporate cultures.
  • AI significantly impacts software development, but it also brings challenges like low-quality contributions and increased distractions.
  • Software engineers must adapt their practices to evolve with AI, ensuring they maintain focus while leveraging tools for efficiency.

Summary

Career Journey and the Origins of HashiCorp

In the beginning, Michele Hashimoto shares his personal journey into software engineering, tracing the roots back to his self-taught days as a young teen fascinated by web programming. He describes his early experiences with coding using PHP and Perl, highlighting the importance of open source in his development. Michele discusses how his experiences and struggles with programming formed the foundation of what would later evolve into HashiCorp. The discussion moves on to the inception of HashiCorp, detailing the failed university research project that led to the realization of the need for better infrastructure management, and the serendipitous email from a co-founder that led to the company's founding.

Building HashiCorp Products and the Challenges of Commercialization

Michele delves into the evolution of HashiCorp and the various products it launched, including Vagrant, Packer, Consul, Terraform, and Vault. He discusses how these tools addressed specific challenges in the rapidly evolving cloud landscape, emphasizing the unique solutions they offered, such as infrastructure as code and automated service discovery. Nevertheless, Michele outlines the early struggles with commercialization, revealing how HashiCorp initially lagged in generating revenue, which caused tension between the technology and the business. The pivot to an open-core model allowed them to start capturing enterprise revenue more effectively.

Navigating the Cloud Provider Landscape

Michele shares his candid perspectives on interacting with major cloud providers like AWS, Google Cloud, and Azure. He discusses the arrogance and attitude of AWS, noting their perception that partners dependent on them should feel lucky for any attention. In contrast, he embodies a more positive view of Azure and highlights the challenges encountered with Google Cloud, mainly due to their disconnect between innovative technology and business execution. This narrative provides valuable insights for entrepreneurs who must learn to navigate relationships with powerful cloud providers.

The Impact of AI on Open Source and Software Development

As the conversation shifts towards AI's influence on software development and open-source contributions, Michele warns of the increasing noise generated by AI in open source. He reflects on how agents have revolutionized his day-to-day workflows, allowing him to delegate tasks efficiently while maintaining focus. However, his experiences also highlight potential issues with AI-generated contributions, which can lead to an influx of low-effort submissions. Michele explains how he redesigned policies in his projects to manage the contributions effectively and ensure quality.

Future Predictions and Evolving Practices for Software Engineers

In the concluding segments, Michele discusses the evolving landscape for software engineers and how tools like AI continue to redefine their roles. From the rise of fragile codebases requiring intricate testing environments to the increased demand for faster development cycles, Michele emphasizes the need for engineers to adapt. He reflects on the importance of context switches and how managing distractions is crucial in an age where AI can take some of the burdens off their plates, while still requiring human judgment and oversight.

Sponsors

  • Statsig · The unified platform for flags, analytics, experiments, and more.
  • Sonar · The makers of SonarQube, the industry standard for automated code review.
  • WorkOS · Everything you need to make your app enterprise ready.

Show notes

Brought to You By:

• Statsig — ⁠ The unified platform for flags, analytics, experiments, and more.

• Sonar – The makers of SonarQube, the industry standard for automated code review

• WorkOS – Everything you need to make your app enterprise ready.

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How has the day-to-day workflow of Mitchell Hashimoto changed, thanks to AI tools?

Mitchell Hashimoto is one of the most influential infrastructure engineers of our time, and is one of the most pragmatic builders I’ve met. He is the co-founder of HashiCorp and creator of Ghostty. In this episode, we talk about how he got into software engineering, the history of HashiCorp, and the challenges of turning widely used open-source tools into a durable business. We also go into what it’s really like to work with AWS, Azure and GCP as a startup.

Mitchell shares how he uses AI these days, and how agents have completely changed how he works. We touch on Ghostty, open source, and what’s changing for software engineers and founders in an AI-native era.

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Timestamps

(00:00) Intro

(02:03) Mitchell’s path into software engineering

(07:19) The origins of HashiCorp

(15:52) Early cloud computing

(18:22) The 2010s startup scene in SF

(23:11) Funding HashiCorp

(25:23) The Hashi stack

(32:33) Why HashiCorp’s business lagged behind its technology

(35:28) An early failure in commercialization

(38:28) The open-core pivot and path to enterprise profitability

(48:08) Taking HashiCorp public

(51:58) The near VMware acquisition

(59:10) Mitchell’s take on all the cloud providers

(1:06:02) AI’s impact on open source

(1:07:00) Why Mitchell built Ghostty

(1:09:11) Why Mitchell used Zig

(1:10:38) How terminals work and Ghostty’s approach

(1:17:31) AI’s impact on terminals and libghostty

(1:19:13) How Mitchell uses AI

(1:22:02) Ghostty’s evolving AI use policy

(1:28:36) Why open source must change

(1:31:46) The problem of Git in monorepos

(1:36:22) What needs to change to work effectively with AI

(1:39:57) Mitchell’s hiring practices

(1:47:52) Mitchell’s AI adoption journey

(1:50:41) Advice to would-be founders

(1:52:21) Mitchell’s advising work

(1:53:20) What’s changing for software engineers

(1:55:03) How Mitchell recharges

(1:55:50) Book recommendation

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The Pragmatic Engineer deepdives relevant for this episode:

• AI Engineering in the real world

• The AI Engineering stack

• Pressure on commercial open source to make more money – and HashiCorp changing its license

• How Linux is built with Greg Kroah-Hartman

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Production and marketing by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@pragmaticengineer.com.



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