Why Uber’s CPO delivers food on weekends | Sachin Kansal · Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth summary

Key takeaways

'Dogfooding'—using your own product—is essential for understanding user experience and identifying areas for improvement.
Rapid iteration is crucial; the mantra 'ship, ship, ship' encourages teams to minimize cycle times and quickly address user needs.
Balancing quantitative data with qualitative user feedback is necessary to create products that resonate emotionally with users.
Uber's hybrid marketplace strategy combines human drivers with AV technology, allowing for greater efficiency and flexibility.
Focusing on operational efficiency and profitability has been vital for Uber's sustainability, especially during challenging periods.
AI serves as a valuable tool for enhancing product management, particularly in analyzing user feedback and expediting the decision-making process.

Summary

Extreme Dogfooding at Uber

Sachin Kansal emphasizes the importance of 'dogfooding'—using your own products to gain firsthand experience. He is personally involved in riding and delivering for Uber, completing nearly 1,000 trips to cultivate empathy and better understand user experiences. This practice allows Sachin and his teams to pinpoint inefficiencies and areas for improvement directly from user interactions, fostering a culture of continuous feedback and iteration.

The Importance of 'Ship, Ship, Ship'

Kansal shares his mantra of 'ship, ship, ship', highlighting the significance of rapid iteration in product development. He argues that shipping products quickly is crucial for making an impact and learning from real user experiences. This leads to a culture of urgency and innovation that focuses on minimizing the cycle time between identifying problems and deploying solutions.

Balancing Metrics and User Experience

The conversation underscores the balance between data-driven metrics and user experience. While data provides invaluable insights, Sachin points out that it can often overshadow the qualitative aspects of user feedback. He advocates for a more holistic understanding of user needs, emphasizing that product managers must integrate emotional insights gained from direct interaction with users alongside quantitative data.

Uber's Vision for Autonomous Vehicles

Kansal outlines Uber's strategy towards a hybrid marketplace that combines human drivers and autonomous vehicles (AVs). He explains that Uber has shifted its approach to partner with other companies for AV technology instead of developing it in-house. This hybrid model aims to optimize driver utilization and enhance efficiency, preparing Uber for the future while ensuring that human drivers play a significant role for the foreseeable future.

Cultural Shift Towards Profitability

The podcast discusses Uber’s transition to a culture focused on profitability. This shift began during the challenges posed by COVID-19, leading to an emphasis on operational efficiency and cutting costs. Kansal explains that prioritizing the optimization of core services ultimately leads to a more sustainable business model that allows Uber to make investments in new growth areas.

Utilizing AI as a Tool

Sachin discusses integrating AI into Uber’s product management processes, particularly for analyzing user research and improving decision-making. By leveraging tools like ChatGPT and Gemini, product teams can synthesize large volumes of feedback and insights rapidly, enhancing their ability to understand user sentiment and refine products accordingly.

Show notes

Sachin Kansal is chief product officer at Uber, where he oversees the Rider, Driver, Delivery, Grocery, and New Verticals product lines used for 33 million daily trips worldwide. He’s been in product for over 25 years (at Google, Palm, Flywheel, and now Uber). He is known for his “extreme dogfooding” ethos—personally completing almost a thousand Uber driving and delivery trips to sharpen his product insight and user empathy—and his “ship, ship, ship” mantra, which drives rapid iteration across Uber’s global teams.

What you will learn:

1. Dogfooding at scale

2. “Ship, ship, ship” as a cultural mantra

3. Obsession with inputs over outputs

4. Uber’s hybrid marketplace vision for autonomy

5. How Uber changed its culture to focus on profitability

6. What to do when data says “no” but your gut says “yes”

7. Career advice: maximize cycles

8. AI as a research assistant, not an oracle

9. Uber rider etiquette tips

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Brought to you by:

• Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want

• Stripe—Financial infrastructure to grow your revenue

• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

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Where to find Sachin Kansal:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sachinkansal/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Sachin’s background

(05:00) Dogfooding in practice

(11:24) Empathy and understanding drivers

(20:18) Balancing metrics and user experience

(22:04) Operationalizing dogfooding

(24:26) Challenges and solutions in dogfooding

(29:49) The motto: “ship, ship, ship”

(36:37) Product announcements and live demos

(40:49) Career advice for product managers

(43:51) The evolution of product management with AI

(46:55) Collaboration between engineers and product managers

(49:36) Uber’s vision for self-driving cars

(55:59) Uber’s path to profitability

(01:01:58) Balancing data and gut decisions

(01:07:21) AI tools in product management

(01:10:14) Failure corner

(01:13:48) Lightning round and final thoughts

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Referenced:

• Uber: https://www.uber.com/

• Oracle: https://www.oracle.com/

• Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/

• Fivetran: https://go.fivetran.com/

• Uber for Business: https://www.uber.com/us/en/business

• McDonald’s: https://www.mcdonalds.com/

• Domino’s: https://www.dominos.com

• PalmPilot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PalmPilot

• Praveen Neppalli Naga on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pneppalli/

• May Mobility: https://maymobility.com/

• Uber strikes deal with May Mobility to deploy ‘thousands’ of robotaxis: https://www.theverge.com/news/659563/uber-may-mobility-autonomous-ridehail-partnership

• Waymo: https://waymo.com/

• WeRide: https://www.weride.ai/

• Uber and Avride Announce Autonomous Delivery and Mobility Partnership: https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-details/2024/Uber-and-Avride-Announce-Autonomous-Delivery-and-Mobility-Partnership/default.aspx

• Dara Khosrowshahi on X: https://x.com/dkhos

• Uber Elevate: https://www.uber.com/us/en/elevate/vision/

• Uber AV: https://www.uber.com/us/en/autonomous/

• Uber Reserve: https://www.uber.com/us/en/ride/how-it-works/reserve/

• Uber for teens: https://www.uber.com/us/en/ride/teens/

• Flywheel: https://www.flywheel.com/

• ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com/

• Gemini: https://gemini.google.com/app

• NotebookLM: https://notebooklm.google/

• Behind the product: NotebookLM | Raiza Martin (Senior Product Manager, AI @ Google Labs): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/googles-notebooklm-raiza-martin

• BlackBerry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry

• Peaky Blinders on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80002479

• Deep research: https://openai.com/index/introducing-deep-research/

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Recommended books:

• Blitzscaling: The Lightning-Fast Path to Building Massively Valuable Companies: https://www.amazon.com/Blitzscaling-Lightning-Fast-Building-Massively-Companies/dp/1524761419

• Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t: Why That Is And What You Can Do About It: https://www.amazon.com/Nobody-Wants-Read-Your-Sh-ebook/dp/B01GZ1TJBI

• Steve Jobs: https://www.amazon.com/Steve-Jobs-Walter-Isaacson/dp/1451648537

• Elon Musk: https://www.amazon.com/Elon-Musk-Walter-Isaacson/dp/1982181281

• The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers―Straight Talk on the Challenges of Entrepreneurship: https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Thing-About-Things-Building/dp/0062273205

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

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Why Uber’s CPO delivers food on weekends | Sachin Kansal