The design process is dead. Here’s what’s replacing it. | Jenny Wen (head of design at Claude) · Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth summary

Key takeaways

The traditional design process is becoming obsolete; designers must adapt to support rapid engineering execution.
Designers today need a blend of design and coding skills, fostering close collaboration with engineering teams.
AI will improve in taste and judgment, but human accountability remains essential for making significant design decisions.
When hiring, look for resilient candidates, including strong generalists, deep specialists, and eager new graduates.
Maintaining product quality amidst rapid shipping requires clear communication and a commitment to continuous improvement.
Low-leverage tasks can be high-impact for managers, fostering team morale and deeper product understanding.
Identifying and cultivating illegible ideas can lead to significant innovation and insights in design.

Summary

The Shifting Design Process

Jenny Wen, head of design at Anthropic, discusses how traditional design processes, like the classic mock-and-iterate approach, are becoming obsolete. She explains that designers now prioritize supporting engineering execution over creating extensive mockups, as engineering agility demands a quicker cycle. The role of designers is shifting towards rapid prototyping and integration within teams rather than being the gatekeepers of design.

Day in the Life of a Designer

Jenny shares insights into her daily life at Anthropic, highlighting her collaboration with engineers and her use of AI tools, especially Claude. She emphasizes the need for designers to adapt to their evolving roles, blending traditional design skills with engineering capabilities. Jenny's integration in the coding phase allows her to directly influence product features, showcasing a new blend of roles in modern design.

AI and Design Judgement

The conversation delves into the impact of AI on design, specifically regarding how AI might eventually surpass human judgement in taste and decision-making. While Jenny acknowledges that AI will improve in this area, she asserts that human accountability and decision-making will still be necessary for discerning what to build and ensuring meaningful product outputs.

Hiring for the Future of Design

Jenny discusses the three archetypes she prioritizes when hiring: strong generalists who can adapt, deep specialists with exceptional skills, and humble early-career designers eager to learn. She notes the importance of resilience, adaptability, and a willingness to embrace new tools in the face of constant change in the design landscape.

Building Trust and Quality in Rapid Shipping

Jenny emphasizes the importance of maintaining product quality and trust when shipping features rapidly. She suggests that by clearly communicating to users that products are in early stages and actively iterating based on feedback, companies can build trust even when products are not perfect. This approach allows organizations to leverage rapid feedback for continuous improvement.

Management Lessons in Design

Jenny shares her experiences about the balance between being a manager and an individual contributor (IC). She notes the value of spending time on traditionally low-leverage tasks, as they often yield high impact, fostering team engagement and deeper understanding of the product. Jenny also highlights the importance of creating a team dynamic where humor and playful roasting are signs of safety and camaraderie.

Legibility Framework Insights

Jenny introduces Evan Tana's 'legibility matrix', emphasizing its relevance for designers in spotting ideas that aren't yet fully articulated or understood within the team. By recognizing and nurturing these 'illegible' ideas, designers can turn them into valuable insights and prototypes, guiding their contributions in a rapidly evolving tech landscape.

Show notes

Jenny Wen leads design for Claude at Anthropic. Prior to this, she was Director of Design at Figma, where she led the teams behind FigJam and Slides. Before that, she was a designer at Dropbox, Square, and Shopify.

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We discuss:

1. Why the classic discovery → mock → iterate design process is becoming obsolete

2. What a day in the life of a designer at Anthropic looks like, including her AI tool stack

3. Whether AI will eventually surpass humans in taste and judgment

4. Why Jenny left a director role at Figma to return to IC work at Anthropic

5. The three archetypes Jenny is hiring for now

6. Why chatbot interfaces may be more durable than most people expect

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Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-design-process-is-dead

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Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0

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Where to find Jenny Wen:

• X: https://x.com/jenny_wen

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennywen

• Substack: https://jennywen.substack.com

• Website: https://jennywen.ca

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Jenny Wen

(04:23) Why the traditional design process is dead

(06:33) The two new types of design work

(10:00) How widespread this shift will be

(13:00) Day-to-day life as a designer at Anthropic

(18:45) Jenny’s AI stack

(20:03) Why Figma still matters for exploration

(22:25) Advice for working with engineers

(24:19) How to maintain craft, quality, and trust in the AI era

(27:35) Will AI ever have “taste”?

(31:38) The future of chatbot interfaces

(35:33) Moving from director back to IC

(41:00) The 10-day build of Claude Cowork

(46:06) Hiring: the three archetypes

(50:44) Advice for new and senior designers

(54:42) The value of “low leverage” tasks for managers

(57:52) Why the best teams roast each other

(01:01:45) The legibility framework

(01:07:22) Lightning round and final thoughts

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Referenced:

• Figma: https://www.figma.com

• Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com

• v0: https://v0.app

• Navigating a Design Career with Jenny Wen | Figma at Waterloo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHcBPMh2ivk

• Claude Cowork: https://claude.com/product/cowork

• Use Claude Code in VS Code: https://code.claude.com/docs/en/vs-code

• Claude Code in Slack: https://code.claude.com/docs/en/slack

• Lex Fridman’s website: https://lexfridman.com

• Head of Claude Code: What happens after coding is solved | Boris Cherny: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/head-of-claude-code-what-happens

• OpenClaw: https://openclaw.ai

• OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai

• Marc Andreessen: The real AI boom hasn’t even started yet: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/marc-andreessen-the-real-ai-boom

• Socratica: https://www.socratica.info

• Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next

• Radical Candor: From theory to practice with author Kim Scott: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/radical-candor-from-theory-to-practice

• Evan Tana’s ‘legibility matrix’ on X: https://x.com/evantana/status/1927404374252269667

• How to spot a top 1% startup early: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-spot-a-top-1-startup-early

• Palantir: https://www.palantir.com

• Stripe: https://stripe.com

• Linear: https://linear.app

• Notion: https://www.notion.com

• Julie Zhuo’s website: https://www.juliezhuo.com

• Sentimental Value: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt27714581

• The Pitt on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/The-Pitt-Season-1/dp/B0DNRR8QWD

• Noah Wyle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Wyle

• ER on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0FWZSDYRP

• Retro: https://retro.app

• Granola: https://www.granola.ai

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Recommended books:

• Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kick-Ass-Without-Humanity/dp/1250103509

• The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Broker-Robert-Moses-Fall/dp/0394480767

• Insomniac City: New York, Oliver Sacks, and Me: https://www.amazon.com/Insomniac-City-New-York-Oliver/dp/162040494X

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

The design process is dead. Here’s what’s replacing it. | Jenny Wen (head of design at Claude)