Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
The creator of WordPress opens up about becoming an internet villain, why he’s taking a stand, and the future of open source | Matt Mullenweg (founder and CEO, Automattic)
· Summarized
Key takeaways
- Matt Mullenweg addresses public criticism, affirming the resilience of the WordPress community amidst controversy.
- Open source is fundamental to software freedom, and true open-source software should be free from corporate restrictions.
- The acquisition of Tumblr is a strategic move to rejuvenate the platform and integrate it with WordPress functionality.
- Building a successful community requires cultivating a movement, not just a product.
- Standing up to corporate interests, like the confrontation with WP Engine, is crucial in protecting open-source ideals.
- The future of the open-source space includes desiring more collaborative technological advances with an emphasis on community values.
Summary
Introduction to Matt Mullenweg
Matt Mullenweg is the co-founder of WordPress, an open-source platform powering 43% of the internet. He is also the CEO of Automattic, the parent company of various brands such as WordPress.com, WooCommerce, and Tumblr, with a valuation surpassing $7 billion. In this episode, he addresses controversial topics surrounding WordPress, Automattic, and the larger open-source community.
Public Criticism and Controversy
Matt discusses the recent critiques aimed at him as the face of WordPress and Automattic, explaining how the difficulties he's faced with public sentiment and a lawsuit have affected his perception. Despite a rise in negative opinions, he maintains that the core community remains supportive and engaged with the project, countering claims that the platform is in decline.
The Importance of Open Source
He dives deep into the importance of open source software and emphasizes why initiatives like Meta’s Llama are misleadingly branded as 'open source,' due to restrictions tied to their licensing. Matt stresses the foundational freedoms that should be inherent in true open-source software.
Acquisition of Tumblr and Vision for the Future
The acquisition of Tumblr for $3 million marked a significant moment for Automattic, aiming to revitalize the platform following years of stagnation under previous ownership. He discusses plans to integrate Tumblr with WordPress, enriching user experience and expanding functionality, while also revitalizing the team behind it.
Building a Community and Movement
Matt touches on the principles of building a successful online community, arguing that it’s crucial not just to build a product but to cultivate a movement. He highlights his strategy to engage developers and users to foster a sense of belonging and investment in the platform, diverging from the practices of private equity operations.
Response to WP Engine and Current Challenges
The confrontation with WP Engine, marked by lawsuits and trademark conflicts, serves as a focal point in the conversation. Matt elaborates on how this dispute impacts the WordPress community and affirms the importance of standing firm for open-source values. He also acknowledges the challenges posed by social media narratives and misinformation.
The Role of Technology and the Future
The conversation looks forward to the future of WordPress, open source, and technology at large, including the integration of AI within development processes. Matt expresses optimism about evolving the space and maintaining a balance between innovation and community values.
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Show notes
Matt Mullenweg is the co-founder of WordPress, the open source platform powering a staggering 43% of the internet. He also serves as CEO of Automattic—the parent company of brands like WordPress.com, WooCommerce, and Tumblr—which is worth over $7 billion, with over 1,700 employees across 90 countries. In this episode, he discusses some of the most controversial topics surrounding WordPress, Automattic, and the broader open source community.
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What you’ll learn:
• Matt’s response to public criticism
• Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source”
• How his team is turning around Tumblr after acquiring it for just $3 million (after Yahoo bought it for $1.1 billion)
• Why he mortgaged his home to fund San Francisco’s iconic Bay Lights project
• Matt’s philosophy: “Don’t just build a product; build a movement”
• Why open source matters: “If the Founding Fathers were around today, they’d be open source advocates”
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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-creator-of-wordpress-opens-up-matt-mullenweg
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Where to find Matt Mullenweg:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattm/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/photomatt/
• Website: https://ma.tt/
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Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Introduction to Matt Mullenweg
(05:10) Matt’s career journey
(11:15) Bay Lights project and philanthropy
(17:28) How Matt got involved with open source
(23:25) Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source”
(27:14) The future of open source and how to get involved
(35:25) Building a successful online community
(39:12) The WP Engine controversy
(50:24) Facing criticism and controversy
(55:29) Addressing community concerns
(01:08:29) Forking Advanced Custom Fields
(01:11:15) The role of social media and public perception
(01:16:43) Acquiring and reviving Tumblr
(01:24:25) Automattic’s acquisition strategy
(01:28:51) Final thoughts and future plans
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Referenced:
• WordPress: https://wordpress.com/
• Automattic: https://automattic.com/
• CNET: https://www.cnet.com/
• Akismet: https://akismet.com/wordpress/
• Jetpack: https://jetpack.com/
• Toni Schneider on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonischneider/
• WooCommerce: https://woocommerce.com/
• Beeper: https://www.beeper.com/
• Day One: https://dayoneapp.com/
• Simplenote: https://simplenote.com/
• Pocket Casts: https://pocketcasts.com/
• Creative Commons: https://creativecommons.org/
• Audrey Capital: https://audrey.co/
• Stripe: https://stripe.com/
• SpaceX: https://www.spacex.com/
• Calm: https://www.calm.com/
• August: https://august.com/
• Daylight Computer: https://daylightcomputer.com/
• Keys Jazz Bistro: https://keysjazzbistro.com/
• Joomla: https://www.joomla.org/
• Drupal: https://new.drupal.org/
• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/
• Wix: https://www.wix.com/
• Squarespace: https://www.squarespace.com/
• Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/
• Gravatar: https://gravatar.com/
• The Bay Lights: https://illuminate.org/projects/thebaylights/
• The Bay Lights 360: https://illuminate.org/the-bay-lights-360/
• Ben Davis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-davis-sf/
• Kinder High School for the Performing and Visual Arts: https://www.houstonisd.org/hspva
• Jack Dorsey: We’re Losing our Free Will to Algorithms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_8NganZSFI
• Marc Andreessen: https://a16z.com/author/marc-andreessen/
• Bill Gurley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgurley/
• An inside look at X’s Community Notes | Keith Coleman (VP of Product) and Jay Baxter (ML Lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-x-built-the-best-fact-checking-system-on-the-internet
• Llama: https://www.llama.com/
• WordCamp US & Ecosystem Thinking: https://ma.tt/2024/09/ecosystem-thinking/
• As Wall Street Chases Profits, Fire Departments Have Paid the Price: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/17/us/fire-engines-shortage-private-equity.html
• WordCamp Asia: https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/
• Justin Baldoni Hit with Defamation Suit as PR Teams Turn on Each Other over Blake Lively’s ‘It Ends with Us’ Smear Campaign Allegations: https://deadline.com/2024/12/justin-baldoni-defamation-lawsuit-publicist-blake-lively-1236241784/
• How WordPress Hot Nacho Scandal Shapes WP Engine Dispute: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/how-wordpress-hot-nacho-scandal-shapes-wp-engine-dispute/539069/
• Gutenberg: https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/
• ClassicPress: https://www.classicpress.net/
• Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff
• Mary Hubbard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryfhubbard/
• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach
• Founder mode: https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html
• Cow.com: https://www.cow.com/
• David Karp on X: https://x.com/davidkarp
• Marissa Mayer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissamayer/
• Alibaba: https://www.alibaba.com/
• WP Engine Tracker: https://wordpressenginetracker.com/
• Kumbh Mela: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbh_Mela
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Recommended book:
• Maintenance: Of Everything (in progress): https://books.worksinprogress.co/book/maintenance-of-everything/addenda/page/introduction
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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
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