The art of influence: The single most important skill that AI can’t replace | Jessica Fain (Webflow, ex-Slack) · Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth summary

Key takeaways

Curiosity and empathy are vital skills for product managers, but they are often forgotten when dealing with executives.
Effective influence hinges on understanding executive schedules and priorities, which may not align with product manager interests.
Align product pitches with executive incentives, and remember to clearly communicate how ideas support broader company goals.
Engage in meetings with a learning mindset rather than aiming solely for approval to foster collaboration.
The advent of AI changes the nature of product management; focus shifts from execution to influence and idea selection.

Summary

The Importance of Influence in Product Management

Jessica Fain, a product leader at Webflow, discusses how influence is a crucial skill for product leaders, greater than even AI in importance. Many great ideas fail to get executive buy-in, largely because product builders often misunderstand how decisions are made at the executive level. Fain emphasizes that effective influence starts with understanding the executive's calendar and their hectic schedule. Executives are often not prepared for the pitches they receive, so product managers must provide clear context quickly and learn to speak their language.

Communication Strategies with Executives

One of the key strategies shared is to start meetings with a clear context-setting phase, including a brief summary of previous discussions. Jessica notes that the first 30 seconds of a meeting are critical as they provide executives with what they need to focus. Asking about the executive's priorities, rather than a generic 'what's top of mind for you?', can yield better insights for the product manager.

Aligning Incentives for Better Buy-in

Understanding the incentives of executives is paramount, and Fain advises aligning product pitches with these to demonstrate how ideas support the overall company strategy. This requires constant communication and a keen understanding of the broader business landscape, allowing product managers to pitch ideas while posing as the domain experts.

Learning vs. Convincing

Fain advises that when engaging with executives, the goal should be to learn and co-create rather than simply to convince them of one’s viewpoint. This perspective encourages openness and fosters collaboration, moving away from a transactional mindset towards building a genuine partnership with leaders.

The Role of AI in Influence and Product Management

AI is transforming product management, allowing product managers to build quickly and test ideas fast. The role shifts from execution to orchestration and influence, where product managers must now decide what ideas make it through to execution. Fain predicts that developing the capacity to influence amidst rapid changes will be increasingly vital, as executives will rely on PMs to guide them through the noise.

Show notes

Jessica Fain is a product leader at Webflow and former Chief of Staff to the CPO at Slack, where she worked alongside April Underwood and many past podcast guests including Stewart Butterfield, Annie Pearl, Tamar Yehoshua, and Noah Weiss. She’s spent her career learning how executives actually make decisions—and why most people completely misunderstand the process.

We discuss:

1. Why great ideas often don’t get buy-in

2. Why executive calendars are “like strobe lights” and why the first 30 seconds of a meeting matter so much

3. Why executives are usually optimizing for a global maximum while you are often optimizing locally

4. The best question Jessica uses when a leader says something that seems wrong: “That’s so interesting. What led you to believe that?”

5. Why you should go in to learn, not to convince

6. Why showing only one option is a mistake

7. Why AI will make influence more important, not less

—

Brought to you by:

Omni—AI analytics your customers can trust

Lovable—Build apps by simply chatting with AI

Vanta—Automate compliance, manage risk, and accelerate trust with AI

—

Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-art-of-influence-jessica-fain

—

Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0

—

Where to find Jessica Fain:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-fain-79b8989

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Jessica Fain

(03:53) Why influence is the highest-leverage skill in product

(04:47) Why great ideas fail without executive buy-in

(06:00) How executives actually think

(09:05) The fundamentals: context-setting, communication, and empathy

(10:22) Stop pitching for approval—start co-creating with execs

(12:59) Influence vs. politics (and why people get it wrong)

(15:44) How to disagree with execs without losing trust

(17:20) Going in to learn, not to convince

(19:08) How to present ideas

(26:05) The Minto-style approach and tailoring your communication to each exec

(28:22) Why Jessica doesn’t like the question “What’s top of mind for you?”

(30:24) Understanding incentives to unlock buy-in

(32:10) Aligning product work with company strategy

(35:10) Quick summary

(37:31) Disarming the executive

(40:49) Speed matters: why fast follow-up builds momentum

(43:32) How to run high-impact meetings (the 60-second rule)

(47:00) Why influencing execs is part of your job

(49:15) Asking for more resources and thinking in 10x bets

(52:23) What to do when your idea gets rejected

(54:18) Clarifying information

(56:50) How to build trust and make ideas stick

(58:30) Shrinking big ideas into experiments

(01:02:27) Common mistakes people make when influencing leaders

(01:06:00) How to grow into your next role

(01:09:32) How AI is changing influence and product work

(01:17:55) Using AI to simulate exec feedback and improve pitches

(01:21:15) Protecting our brains from overwhelm

(01:22:44) Lightning round and final thoughts

—

Referenced:

• Box: https://www.box.com

• Slack: https://slack.com

• Brightwheel: https://mybrightwheel.com

• Webflow: https://webflow.com

• April Underwood on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprilunderwood

• Lessons in product leadership and AI strategy from Glean, Google, Amazon, and Slack | Tamar Yehoshua (Product at Glean, ex-Google and Slack): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/you-dont-need-to-be-a-well-run-company-to-win-tamar-yehoshua

• Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com

• Behind the scenes of Calendly’s rapid growth | Annie Pearl (CPO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-scenes-of-calendlys-rapid

• Calendly: https://calendly.com

• Glassdoor: https://www.glassdoor.co.in/index.htm

• The 10 traits of great PMs, how AI will impact your product, and Slack’s product development process | Noah Weiss (Slack, Foursquare, Google): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-10-traits-of-great-pms-how-ai

• Ethan Eismann on X: https://x.com/eeismann

• Slack founder: Mental models for building products people love ft. Stewart Butterfield: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/slack-founder-stewart-butterfield

• Ilan Frank on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ilanfrank

• Checkr: https://checkr.com

• Ali Rayl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alirayl

• Rachel Wolan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelwolan

• How Webflow’s CPO built an AI chief of staff to manage her calendar, prep for meetings, and drive AI adoption | Rachel Wolan: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-webflows-cpo-built-an-ai-chief

• Barbara Minto’s website: https://www.barbaraminto.com

• How Slack invests in big little details through Customer Love Sprints: https://slack.design/articles/sweating-the-small-stuff

• Building product at Stripe: craft, metrics, and customer obsession | Jeff Weinstein (Product lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-product-at-stripe-jeff-weinstein

• The Enneagram Institute: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions

• The Pitt on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/The-Pitt-Season-1/dp/B0DNRR8QWD

• Towel warmer: https://www.amazon.com/FLYHIT-Large-Towel-Warmer-Bathroom/dp/B0CB5K34L2

• Casa: https://getcasa.com

• Jimi Hendrix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimi_Hendrix

• Greek Theatre: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Theatre_(Los_Angeles)

—

Recommended books:

• Pachinko: https://www.amazon.com/Pachinko-National-Book-Award-Finalist/dp/1455563927