Genocide Scholar: I Know It When I See It, with Omer Bartov

Key takeaways

The humanitarian crisis in Gaza is dire, with a significant portion of the population at risk of starvation due to actions by the Israeli state.
There is a growing consensus among scholars that the situation in Gaza meets the criteria for genocide as defined by international law.
Western governments, particularly the United States, are complicit in these actions through material support for Israel.
Understanding the historical context of Zionism and the Palestinian identity is crucial to grasping the complexities of the conflict.
Awareness and activism are fundamental to addressing the issues of genocide and human rights violations.

Summary

The Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza

Adam Conover discusses the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza, highlighting severe food deprivation, malnutrition, and skyrocketing death counts, particularly among civilians. He notes that the famine there is caused not by natural disaster but by Israeli state actions that have cut off humanitarian access and devastated croplands and health systems, putting over half a million Palestinians at risk of death from starvation.

Genocide as a Concept

The discussion turns towards the term 'genocide', which Adam Conover mentions is becoming increasingly relevant concerning the actions of the Israeli government in Gaza. Expert guest Omar Bartov, a professor of Holocaust and genocide studies, explains the criteria for defining genocide and the growing international acknowledgement of Israel's intent to eliminate the Palestinian population. Bartov shares his observations about language surrounding the issue and the reluctance of political leaders to label the situation as genocide, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

The Role of Western Countries

Furthering the exploration of genocide, the conversation extends to the complicity of Western governments, particularly the United States, in supporting Israel's actions. Bartov elaborates on the historical context of post-World War II policies and how the actions in Gaza could signify a potential rollback in international law and human rights norms established to prevent such atrocities from occurring again. Bartov emphasizes the moral implications for citizens of Western democracies who are witnessing these events.

Understanding Complex Identities and Narratives

The dialogue also delves deeper into complex identities, examining the perspectives of Israeli citizens, the Palestinian identity, and the historical narratives that have led to current tensions. Bartov reflects on how Zionism began as a liberation movement but has evolved into a platform for the disenfranchisement of Palestinians, which complicates emotions tied to identity for both Israelis and Palestinians.

The Importance of Awareness and Activism

Conover and Bartov conclude with a call for awareness, encouraging listeners to educate themselves about the situation in Gaza and to advocate for responsible government actions. Bartov stresses that preventing genocide requires active involvement and an understanding of its historical context that should resonate beyond mere compassion for the victims.

Show notes

The Palestinian people are being killed en masse, they are being starved, and many are dying of preventable disease. More and more people are beginning to understand that it’s Israel’s intention to eliminate the entire Palestinian population of Gaza. Yet as untold thousands are dying, there are still people who insist that this is not “genocide” despite every bit of evidence to the contrary. This week, Adam speaks with Omer Bartov, a professor of holocaust and genocide studies at Brown University, about the genocide in Gaza, why so many people are reticent to label it as such, and how the world is looking at this moment.

Find Omer’s book at factuallypod.com/books

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