Jason Fried, 37signals (makers of Basecamp, HEY and ONCE)

Feb 15, 2026 141m

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Episode Description

Jason Fried is the co-founder and CEO of 37signals, the software company behind Basecamp, HEY, and ONCE. Fried is widely regarded as one of the most influential voices in modern product development, remote work, and business philosophy. He founded 37signals in 1999 as a web design consultancy, initially creating websites for clients while developing strong opinions about simplicity, clarity, and user-centered design. In 2004, the company pivoted to product development, launching Basecamp as a project management tool born from their own internal needs. The product's success led 37signals to transition entirely from consulting to software. Under Fried's leadership, 37signals became known for challenging Silicon Valley orthodoxies. The company remained bootstrapped and profitable, rejected venture capital, embraced remote work decades before it became mainstream, and advocated for sustainable growth over hypergrowth. In 2014, the company rebranded as Basecamp Inc. to focus exclusively on its flagship product, before returning to the 37signals name in 2022 as it expanded its product line. That same year, the company launched HEY, a reimagined email service, and later introduced ONCE, a new approach to software licensing that allows customers to buy rather than rent software. His accomplishments include co-authoring multiple influential business books with David Heinemeier Hansson: Getting Real, REWORK, which became a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller, Remote: Office Not Required, and It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work. Fried has been a prominent voice advocating for calm companies, reasonable work hours, and building businesses that prioritize profitability and sustainability over valuation and exit strategies. He writes and speaks extensively about product design, company culture, and the future of work, influencing a generation of entrepreneurs to question conventional startup wisdom. Show notes: https://davidsenra.com/episode/jason-fried Made possible by Ramp: ⁠https://ramp.com⁠ HubSpot: https://hubspot.com Function Health: https://functionhealth.com/senra Chapters (00:00:00) Build Products for Yourself (00:01:40) Low Costs, Small Company, Enough Customers (00:03:06) Your Only Competition Is Your Costs (00:05:25) How 37signals Stays Lean (00:09:43) Rewriting Basecamp & Fighting Software Bloat (00:13:42) Why "Enough" Beats Growth (00:17:44) Product People vs. Business Shells (00:22:41) The "So What?" Mindset (00:27:45) Staying Close to Customers (00:34:43) The Reward for Good Work Is More Work (00:39:57) Six-Week Horizons & Compounding Decisions (00:45:20) Anti-Fragile Business With Tiny Units (00:50:55) Galápagos Product Design (00:52:44) Radical Authenticity Over Marketing Tricks (01:27:39) Rick Rubin & Intuition-Driven Building (01:42:25) Lightning in a Bottle & Knowing When to Stop (01:50:29) Defining Success: Pride in the Work (01:53:58) Independence Through Profitability (01:59:23) When Tech Adds Friction Instead of Value (02:04:11) Ruthless Editing & What Never Changes (02:08:14) Longevity as the Moat (02:17:28) Building by Intuition Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

AI-Generated Summary

Build Products for Yourself

Jason Fried emphasizes that the best way to create products is to build for oneself. He shares his early experiences making software for his own needs, which led him to the realization that other people likely share similar needs. This philosophy steers his approach to product development at 37signals, focusing on personal satisfaction as the driving force.

Keeping Costs Low and Staying Lean

Fried discusses the importance of maintaining low costs and keeping the company small to remain profitable. He notes that high costs force companies to target large markets, while staying lean allows them to cater to a smaller, dedicated customer base that truly values their offerings, reducing the number of required sales to remain viable.

The Importance of Intuition in Decision-Making

Fried believes that intuition is key when making decisions in business. He argues that relying solely on data and numbers can misguide analysts, as many factors can influence a situation that data might not capture. His approach favors gut feelings cultivated through years of experience.

Simplicity Over Complexity

Throughout the conversation, there is a recurring theme of simplicity as the ideal in product design and business operations. Fried references issues with smart home technology that complicate rather than improve user experience, which contrasts with what he identifies as timeless designs in products like Rolex watches.

Enduring Success and The Concept of Enough

Fried discusses the idea of success beyond traditional metrics like growth and revenue, focusing instead on doing work that makes him proud. He argues that sustainability should be prioritized over hypergrowth, advocating for a sense of stability and enough customers who genuinely believe in the product, rather than constantly seeking new ones. He believes in enjoying the journey rather than fixating solely on the destination.

Time as a Filter for Quality

Fried emphasizes that time is the ultimate filter for determining the quality and relevance of products and businesses. Only over time can one truly assess whether an idea has endured and been worthwhile, highlighting his core belief that good products withstand the test of time.

Ruthless Editing Maximizes Value

Fried explains the importance of being selective in what products and features to pursue, likening this to Rick Rubin's approach of ruthless editing in music production. This means focusing on a few significant offerings that truly resonate, rather than overextending with numerous mediocre options.

Conclusion and Reflections on Experience

Fried concludes by reflecting on his learning throughout his career, emphasizing that every decision and experience contributes to personal growth and business knowledge. He values the lessons learned in the process equally with the outcome, crafting a journey of continuous improvement in product design.