The Deal with Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly - How Kevin Warren Is Changing Chicago – and the Bears

How Kevin Warren Is Changing Chicago – and the Bears

Sep 26, 2024 - 29m 33s

In this episode of The Deal, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly discuss the state of Big Ten football after Rodriguez visits his daughter for a University of Michigan game. The hosts then interview Kevin Warren, president and chief executive of the Chicago Bears and the former commissioner of the Big Ten Conference, about lessons he’s learned from professional and college sports. Warren also shares the latest on a proposed new Bears stadium and the importance of relationships in business.

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Key Takeaways

1
College football is becoming a dominant revenue driver, similar to professional sports franchises.
2
Building relationships is fundamental for successful business dealings in sports.
3
Collaboration across stakeholders is crucial for the success of major projects like stadium development.
4
Navigating complex environments requires understanding diverse perspectives and clear communication.
5
Private equity is reshaping the financial landscape of sports, necessitating a strategic approach to its integration.

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The Evolution of College Football and Professional Sports

In the opening discussion, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly delve into the allure of college football, linking it to iconic franchises like Michigan, and recognizing its massive economic power compared to professional sports. They emphasize how college football's revenue and talent dynamics are increasingly influenced by the Big Ten and SEC, highlighting the scale of operations within college athletics, which are oftentimes equivalent to managing a public company.

Kevin Warren: Leadership and Relationship Building

Kevin Warren, as the president and CEO of the Chicago Bears, shares insights about his leadership journey. He elaborates on the importance of diligence, resilience, and the building of relationships rather than simply pursuing transactional business. His approach emphasizes the core lessons learned from his parents and grandparents, underscoring that success hinges on creating valuable relationships, which ultimately facilitate easier business dealings.

Stadium Development in Chicago: The Role of Collaboration

Warren discusses the ambitious goals for a new stadium for the Chicago Bears, focusing on collaboration with other franchises and local entities. He expresses the importance of ensuring that stakeholders have a positive experience in negotiations and emphasizes the need for any deal to benefit all parties involved. The conversation extends to the broader implications of stadium development on the community, aiming for it to become a hub for sports and economic activity.

Navigating Business in Complex Environments

The podcast highlights the complexities involved in balancing multiple stakeholders’ needs within the sports business sector. Warren describes his method for problem-solving, including visualizing the end goals and understanding different perspectives. He reflects on his experience in the Big Ten and the skills he developed in dealing with varied interests, which he applies to his current role in enhancing the Bears' legacy.

Private Equity's Impact on Sports

The effects of private equity involvement in sports come into focus, with Warren addressing its implications for both the NFL and college athletics. He acknowledges the potential benefits of institutional money while committing to understand its dynamics thoroughly. This segment underscores Warren’s proactive approach to education on evolving business models within sports.

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Hello, everyone. Welcome to the deal. I'm your host, Jason Kelly alongside my partner, Alex Rodriguez. All right, Alex, we're going to get to our interview with Kevin Warren, of course, the president and CEO of the Chicago Bears in a minute so much to talk to him about.

he was the former Big Ten Commissioner. Now the president CEO, as I said, of the Chicago Bears. But let's talk a little bit about what's been going on with us lately, very recently, very appropriately. You were at the big house in Ann Arbor, visiting your daughter Natasha.

You saw a game. I mean, the scope of college football, it's amazing. It really is, Jason. And it reminds you every time you go back.

Well, let me just check you on that because I think I saw half the game, the other half I was like Lou Lemon and shopping and working my credit card for my daughter. I keep getting hooked into this much football dad, but it's really about let's go shopping. You're a great credit card bearer. I mean, listen, you're really, really good at just offering that.

Yeah, I keep falling for it. I mean, just like you do with your son, right? Oh, my, of course. Yeah.

Can't help remind me. It feels like Like Michigan football is like the New York Yankees of baseball or Duke basketball. There's this aura around it that is them against the world. And in many ways, everyone has a feeling about Michigan, like just like the Yankees, you the love them or hate them.

So it was fun to be back to the big house. Yeah. And it also is a reminder of the scope of the big 10. I mean, when you think about how the college athletics landscape, certainly the college football landscape is evolving.

It's really coming down to the SEC and the big 10 as the massive drivers of revenue, talent, transfers. Like every single bit of it, it feels like it's being dictated by those two conferences. And so with Michigan as a recent national champion at the White Hot Center of that, putting on your business hat, you must be looking around and just thinking, God, I mean, these football teams, these coach football teams are bigger than a lot of professional franchises in terms of their importance and maybe even the revenue. They're massive, massive businesses, and I think our viewers and listeners would find it really interesting to think that these kind of jobs, big 10, big 12, they're almost like running a public company, so they're private.

But much more complicated because a lot of times you don't have the infrastructure or the budgets, and the truth is these businesses, NCAA football, Duke basketball, they've grown so fast, it's impossible to have the infrastructure to keep up with that growth and what a massive responsibility. When you negotiate these meteorites and Kevin Warren did that, you're talking about billions and billions of dollars, which some public companies don't deal with that type of scale and they do. Yeah, totally. And a lot of a very disparate group of stakeholders in that as well.

One other thing I wanted to mention is by the time folks are listening to this episode, I will have come out of a really interesting event that we're doing here in New York, a partnership between Bloomberg and the earth shot prize, which is Prince Williams Climate Initiative. Messiah Jerry and Joel and me talking about the business of sports in Africa, economic development has tied to sports. So I'm definitely gonna get a copy of that and send it along to you because I know it's a subject you're quite interested in personally. Yeah, I can't wait to see it.

And look, we've talked a lot about this on the globalization around sports and one of the main drivers of why these enterprise values are gone through the roof. But what's interesting about basketball, it is a massive global sport. I mean, you have more people in China and India watching basketball nightly than you do in the US. That's incredible.

And like, as you know, Jason, there's so much going on in the content of Africa. I'm very bullish with anything around Africa. A lot of smart capital is going in the billions and billions of dollars, and it's so smart for the NBA to bring basketball there with partners like Grant Hill, Barack and Michelle Obama. I'm really intrigued to watch what you're doing, anything to do with Africa basketball.

All right, coming up on the deal, our interview with the president and CEO of the Chicago Bears, Kevin Warren. We could all use more time. Amazon Business offers smart business buying solutions, so you can spend more time growing your business and less time doing admin. I can see why they call it smart.

Learn more at Amazon Business dot com. Success is more than the final destination. It's a path you take one step at a time. It's discipline, it's teamwork, and it's the drive and passion inside of us that comes before all recognition.

It's what Steve has been doing for over 130 years. Quietly, yet strategically, Steve has become one of the fastest growing wealth management and investment banking firms in the country. Our financial advisors go beyond traditional wealth management to provide clients with direct access to one of the industry's largest equity research franchises and a leading middle-market investment bank. because success is the drive it takes to keep climbing, the passion to keep investing, the best of each of us made better by the best in all of us, and that is where success meets success.

Start your journey at Steeple.com, that's STIFEL.com. Steeple Nicholas and Company Incorporated, Member SIPC and NYSE. All right. So now we're going to bring in Kevin Warren.

He is the president and CEO for the Chicago Bears. Kevin, welcome to the deal. We actually like to have people at the start introduce themselves and just tell us what you do. I mean, my goal is to basically lead this franchise.

This is one of the most historical sports franchises in the industry. I'm very very cognizant, conscientious that this franchise is 105 years old, was founded by George Hollis. It's one of the founding franchises in the NFL. So what I'm trying to do on a every day basis is from a business, from a football, from an entrepreneurial, from a vision standpoint, is to make sure that we're operating in an innovative manner.

So that's the goal, although we're under the umbrella of the National Football League. So Kevin, when you think about, and Jason and I were prepping and we were laughing, your resume seems like just the most stellar resume you've seen from, you know, undergrad at pan where you played hoops, you have an MBA, you have a law degree, you negotiate it one of the biggest, not the biggest, you know, TV deal in big 10 history, obviously. You worked for almost a handful of teams in the NFL. The Vikings just because I'm in Minnesota, I mean, the halo of Kevin Warren is still there in a great way because you came in at the beginning for a $600 million buy.

And now the team, the Vikings are probably worth north of six billion. You build a stadium on time and on budget. What lessons can you draw upon for your mission now with the Chicago Bears? Yeah, I think the lessons I draw from it are all the lessons that I learn from my parents and even from my grandparents is one to be diligent, to be focused, to be resilient, to be able to operate with grit.

You know, I have a saying to be able to operate with dirt in your mouth. And these things aren't easy and so I always charcoal sometime when I have some of these calls and the first thing Business people or politicians or stadium developers will talk and they'll they'll say boy This is a really hard project or these things are very difficult and I say that's why we're here I mean because otherwise we have robots who could do it the less now it's back to your question that I learn the most is Really about the result is a stadium the result is a world series like you've won. The result is being an MVP. The result, you know, is a super bowl champion.

But it really, the input is relationships. And so at the end of the day, it's all those basic core tenets, you know, that my grandparents and my parents are teachers taught us, you know, be diligent, be focused, clean up, you know, when you make a mess, say I'm sorry, you know, work hard, you know, drink your water, wait in line, be patient, get your sleep. All those different things that seem so very basic, but they really are today. And as I get further in my career, I just recognize that this world is really, you know, small people will say that boy's a small world, but it really is small.

But the biggest thing is that all of these deals and the more complex they are, the more relationships from a positive standpoint, you need to have is just not about who's the smartest person in the room. Because at the end of the day, when you do these deals, you come together and everyone has great lawyers and great advisors and great financial advisors and accountants and they understand the terms of the deal but when you break it down to the basic core elements, people do business with people who they like and respect more and also found that the more you learn and understand someone they are more attuned to be able to do business with you. So that's why I say it all the time, I don't do business with people. I do relationships.

And if you do relationships the right way, like we've been able to develop Alex, the business part becomes very easy. And so how does that playbook apply, Kevin, as you take on, you know, trying to figure out a stadium for the city of Chicago, as you say, and this historic franchise, how do you start that process to kind of unpack the different pieces, understand the different stakeholders? like take us inside your head as you sort of sit down and start to map that out. Yeah, the way it works for me is the first thing that I do is I have these free-think sessions with myself.

I usually start in a conference room and most of the time it starts alone and what I will do is I will just write down all the different attributes that I feel that our team will need to be able to solve and resolve to bring whatever we're trying to bring to life whether it's a It's acquisition of a deal. And I'll just free think. I'll just write all these different things down. And so when I think about, you know, you take Chicago and I think about, okay, we need a new stadium.

Yes, all these things, it's a place to play. It's a place that people will get married. People will get buried or have funeral services. Businesses will make decisions on whether they relocate to the state of Illinois.

I'll just go through all of those attributes and just get them all down on a piece of paper. And then what I try to do is to say who are the people involved who are the organizations and the agency involved who can bring those things The life and then I try to just create this tapestry and mosaic of this what this picture looks like this one thing The other thing as a lawyer always start in the courtroom You know, what is the closing argument look like and I even will visualize from a deal standpoint Where are we going to have and I'll ask my team? Where are we going to have the closing dinner? And people say, well, what do you mean we, we're just starting this process right now.

Because if you can get it in your mind where the closing dinner is going to be, then it's easy, always easier instead of working toward a deal, to work backwards to the beginning of the deal. And so once I get those elements set, then I start building relationship. Because I found once you get in the room to really negotiate the terms of the agreement, you have to have the terms of engagement set. and you have to trust each other.

You have to know that you're working toward a common cause. Many of times when I meet with technology companies who are pitching the first question I'll ask is does your product work? And sometimes people will chuckle and go, well, yeah, obviously that's why we're here. It's like, no, no, no, no.

You're showing it to me that it works for one person, but can it work for 10 million people at the same time? And a lot of times people will say, I don't know, I haven't been there. It's not in the judgmental fashion. So in the deal, the first thing I will ask, Do we all agree that we do want to get a deal done, that we have a common goal?

And then what I will do, I'll spend weeks in putting myself in that other person or person's position and to say if I were in their shoes, what are the most important things that we need to accomplish? Because if I accomplish the other party's goals, my goals will come easy. So Kevin, I've never met anyone to your point about having the relationships you have, But in many ways, I think one of your biggest superpowers is the ability to recognize and recruit top tier talent. Yes.

A, where do you get that from? And B, maybe another one of your superpowers that you think separates you from the rest. You know, I think about that often because what I try to do is make sure you keep those superpowers, and I love the way you phrase that, is keep those sharp. It's no different than an athlete.

there were things that Alex that you did on the baseball field better than any other human being in the world. So you got to keep those sharp. Then there are other things you say, you know, I do pretty well. I can't regress in that area.

So one is relationship. And I think it's a couple of different ways you build relationships. There are a lot of people that they build relationships for the reason of getting something else. And I think one of the things that I learned from my parents was the most beautiful relationships you can build in your life are the ones that you hope and pray that as you put people together that they develop a relationship that one day, one year, five year, ten years down the road that you hear back from them and you get a note from them and they say, you know what?

It was based upon that dinner that we had three years ago that now these two other people are either married or their business partners are now they've gone on to do something that even makes the world a better place. So many things and I'm always working with our young individuals that I mentor is to tell them don't be a person that looks over somebody's shoulder, don't be in a conversation and look until the person who comes into the room to see what you can do or don't build a relationship, saying what I'm gonna do this for this person because I think I can get that back. It has to be I'm doing this for this person cause it's the right thing to do. So I think that's one thing.

I think the other thing and a lot of it emanates from the car accident I had as a kid is just you got to have a sense of grit And you got to be grimy in business and I say that in a good way Just to figure things out and to be uncomfortably comfortable to be able to climb flat mountains and Don't start today with boy. That's going to be hard and I'm going to take a shortcut But to do it in a manner where you say you know that really is a gift from God God, I really know that God is in the atmosphere and is present when we enter into business deals or relationships that are complex and you say this is going to take some supernatural powers to figure this out. And I think if people can be more patient and be more diligent, be more caring, be more loving, be more creative and not go into a deal with their mind made up, that's really where the beauty and the benefits come out of these complex relationships. And those are the ones I've thrived the most on.

And so when I think about complex relationships and organizations and institutions, Kevin, my mind actually goes back to your previous job at the big 10. And you know, you've got stakeholders with a lot of different backgrounds and needs and wants and desires. You're also talking about a massively fast growing business. Alex mentioned the $7 billion media deal that you did, which was a signature not just for the big 10, but really for college sports and certainly for college football.

What is something that you remember about that time at the big 10 that you feel like was either a key decision or a key moment that really sort of set you on the right path? You know, that's a great question. And I think I learned so much because I went from pro sports to college sports. I started at the big 10 in the fall of 2019 and you know, the greatest job you can have is when you're a commissioner elect of anything.

because I had really three months or four months at fall where I was able to shadow Jim Delaney and you know going to meetings and didn't have to speak much and didn't have to make any decisions and Jim was coming toward the end of his 31 year brilliant career and I was starting and then I ended up becoming commissioner on January 2nd after the Rose Bowl of 2020 and then it marks the world shuts down and and it was amazing I got a lot of gifts from people you know books of first 90 days first hundred days first year on the job. And it's no different than sports. And that's why I think sports allows the ability for you to kind of understand business and relationships. This was truly one of those days that we had a game plan going into it.

You know, I had my first year mapped out as Commissioner of the Big 10 and then 72 days on the job. All that had to go out of the window. So one of the things I I learned was although you can be prepared and be diligent in plan that you have to be able to pivot and to be nimble. I remember when I went from high school in tempi areas on a public school, good basketball to play at the University of Pennsylvania.

I had a coach at Bob Weinhauer who was a great technical coach. I never knew like we had offensive plays once you got the ball up the court, but I had never run a transition offense. And I remember the first time they put it in, I said a transition off. I was taught, you know, get the ball out of the net or get a rebound and get it up the court and once you get over half of course set it up, we had plays and transition.

And that's something that I think in business, one thing I learned at the big 10, is you have to have a plan in a transition. And so that was really helpful. The other thing I learned is to make sure that you take the proper amount of time to find out who the decision makers really are. And every university is different.

And so it really helped because all those things come together and you need to make sure that you know where everyone is to get that group to coalesce and make decisions. We could all use more time. Amazon Business offers smart business buying solutions. So you can spend more time growing your business and less time doing admin.

I can see why they call it smart. Learn more at amazonbusiness.com. Success is more than the final destination. It's a path you take one step at a time.

It's discipline. it's teamwork and it's the drive and passion inside of us that comes before all recognition. It's what Steve has been doing for over 130 years. Quietly yet strategically, Steve has become one of the fastest growing wealth management and investment banking firms in the country.

Our financial advisors go beyond traditional wealth management to provide clients with direct access to one of the industry's largest equity research franchises and a leading middle-market investment bank. Because success is the drive it takes to keep climbing, the passion to keep investing, the best of each of us made better by the best in all of us. And that is where success meets success. Start your journey at Steeple.com, that's STIFEL.com.

Steeple Nicholas and Company Incorporated, Member SIPC and NYSE. So, Kevin, when you think in that context about, say, the stadium project, and you think about the uniquely Chicago nature of it all, you've talked about potentially a partnership with the White Sox. What do those conversations look like? How do you think about essentially the Chicago sports ecosystem?

them because it's different, you know, with, with multiple teams, obviously, multiple baseball teams, you know, you've got professional sports across the gamut in a critical city and in the center of the country. How do they intertwine as you think about the next few years? I love that question. It's Chicago is a very special place, and special to me, special to my family.

And I think it's the most unique and robust sports town in all of the world. Like you said, you got two baseball teams. You have a basketball team, you got hockey, you got football, you have women's soccer, you have the MLS, you have colleges. This is a major metropolitan area with colleges and universities here with a great business community with a fantastic downtown, so it's an interesting area.

So one of the things that I like about Chicago is that we're at an inflection point where we really, if we come together, which I'm confident we will, as we come together, we We have a chance to make a major and massive impact on athletics, all the way from the youth sports standpoint, all the way from high school to college to pro athletics, not only within Chicago, but around the world. The interesting thing that I love about Chicago because it's a complex environment is there was a study done and it came out, I live downtown. I live in a neighborhood called Streeterville, nine miles south of where I live in a neighborhood that's called Inglewood, just nine miles. There's a 30-year-age disparity, 30 years, average age disparity.

And so I'm constantly always thinking about what can we do in this context and umbrella of sport to be able to change the world? What can we do to shorten to bring together that age disparity? What can we do in the building of a stadium to put people to work, to increase the tax base? There are only eight cranes right now in Chicago that's up.

There's only two cranes up in the air north of the river in downtown Chicago. You compare that to a place like Nashville. They have 21. Las Vegas is 24.

You look at Toronto has 211. And in my estimation, cranes means progress. But the beautiful thing that I love this, I love your show is the fact you all deal with that cross section of sports, but of business, of life, of health of all those different things so I'm trying to make sure that we work together these different sports teams of what can we do to make Chicago just a strong and fortified city under the auspices of sport but a lot of the things that need to be changed and improved not only in Chicago but in our surrounding communities in the state of Illinois that we can do it through sport how can we come together to be able to make Chicago the the epicenter of sport, but not only in sport, the goodness associated with sport. Kevin, you mentioned eight cranes.

I mean, I'm here and cooking a grove at our headquarters and I'm seeing eight cranes from my office. I mean, sir, in a boom down, I am. And so your challenges, which I'm sure you had similar challenges in Minnesota, I am confident that you will get that done. If anyone can, I know you can.

And so just to follow one to that in order to get this stadium done, does it necessitate essentially working together with some of the other franchises. Is that the cleanest or clearest path forward? Do you think, Kevin? I think in all of these big deals is that everyone needs to go back to their respective constituents and feel like they had a positive experience.

There can't be a winner and loser in a deal. So not only from a political standpoint, and that's why I said, I spend time putting myself in the shoes of politicians. The best that I can do, I'm never setting that seat, but into CEO business leaders to other owners of pro-sports franchises. Because that's the way you really can reach a resolution.

You may not always get what you want, but if you walk away and say people were fair and that my company that I represent is better by us coming together and I'm constantly and Alex and I have talked about this, this can't be that anytime I see people walk out of a negotiating room and they say, yeah, we won and we got the deal and that doesn't work that way. And I think that's one of the reasons why you've seen, you know, businesses have gotten kind of crossways is that we have to walk out and try to figure out, you know, how do we work out? Where you walk away and say, man, yeah, maybe I didn't get everything I wanted to, but it wasn't even about me getting what I wanted. It was, you know, how did we leave the situation better than it was, you know, when we got there?

And that's been my focus. That was my focus at the Vikings. That was my focus at the Big 10. And that was my focus.

Since I've been here that any time and I walk out of the door for the last reason and the last day is that I hopefully I look back on it and those around to say he had a value, he made us better. And if anything, he fortified the platform for us to build upon even more. And so I just think it's important for us to have a collaborative relationship to work together to see how we can create a win-win-win opportunity. I realized there was one thing I wanted to ask you about from a deal perspective, Kevin, if you don't mind, which is, I feel like it would be negligent if we didn't ask you about one of the biggest things that's happened in your league recently, which is private equity coming in as a piece of this.

It may not be something that affects your franchise immediately, but it is going to, it already is affecting the nature of the league and conversations around it. From your perspective, what does it mean and what is institutional money coming into sports mean at the pro level and even at the college level because we're starting to see that. I think the private equity vote that our owners took, I think it's positive. It's positive for the NFL.

I think anytime you get in to give an opportunity to provide an industry an opportunity to take on investors, it's positive. I think it helps in a lot of different things. I know for me, I'm actually have started it already. I promised myself before I make any recommendations, I need to become an expert in this space to understand it.

So, I'm going to take the next between now and the end of the year to really study this industry and how the interplay between, I understand private equity, I understand the NFL, but the interplay between of it, because so many times in these deals, I want to make sure that I truly spend time and try to understand kind of, the obvious is obvious, but it's always the unintended consequence, you know, what does it really mean, what's the, we know what the whole period is, but what happens down the road to private equity company wants the sale, who can buy it, how does that impact evaluation, how much access do they have to your books and records. And so I'm going to be really diligent, I'm talking to people in the private equity space, not only even the companies who've been approved by the NFL, but just generally speaking. I'm looking at other sports leagues, I'm looking at other leagues, how it's impacted them. And I just want to make sure that I understand it from that area.

But I think it's good for the business, I think it's good for the economy. again, it reiterates to show that how much people really love, you know, sports and sports ownership. All right, we're going to do what we like to end the episode with a rapid fire around Kevin, so brace yourself. All right, I'll start and then we'll kick it over to Alex.

What's the best deal you've ever made? Ooh, that's a good one. The best deal that I ever made was probably marrying my wife Greta. I love that.

Who's your dream deal-maker partner? My dream deal-maker partner would be Ken Sionalt, former CEO of American Express. Yeah. Why is that?

Why? Because I keep a picture of him right over my shoulder here in my office, Ken Sionalt and Ken Frazier. You know, one that they were African American CEOs, a massive companies, American Express for Ken Sionalt and Merck for Ken Frazier. But the reason why I think Ken Sionalt, I'm attracted to him so much he's been a mentor of mine and really I don't make him any major decision while talking with him is because he's done it in a manner that's just true elegance and he can deliver bad news to people but do it in a manner where you hug him and walk out of the room and so that's just a certain art and because of his position in American expressing just understand the kind of economic infrastructure of this country he knows how really deals work.

But, you know, he just, he's just one of those guys that has always done it in a manner and early on, I learned from him to be really a thermostat, not a thermometer. He controls the temperature of the room. All right. What's the most nervous you've ever been?

The most nervous I've ever been, I would probably say after my car accident, when I was hit by that car, you know, I was in traction for a couple months and then a body cast for multiple months. And because I didn't know if I wanted to test it if I could walk again And I didn't know if I'd ever be able to walk again And I knew if I wasn't able to walk again after they took the body cast off That I would need time to get my mind right because your body follows your mind But that was the first time that I really understood when people say a relationship with God and angels and faith But that was the most nervous I've been in my life since since they cut the cast off of me I haven't been nervous How old were you when that happened? Ten and a half. Wow.

Holy smokes. All right. What's your hype song before you go into a big meeting or negotiation? That's a great question, Alex.

I would say it depends on the nature of the meeting. I mean, my music love is broad. I mean, I listen to Mozart, to Vivaldi, to Walter Hawkins, gospel, to Lil Durk and rap, you know, you can go down the list. So it kind of depends.

But I think music, you know, we play music constantly in our office. I grew up around, you know, music, I love music and it has so many, you know, memories. If you had to distill down your advisor, if you had to pick the one sort of piece that you would give someone who wants to be in your seat someday, any of the seats that you've had. what would that piece of advice be?

I think the piece of advice I would give them would be to just to slow down and enjoy people. And you know, because there's so many times we rush about past our marriages, we rush past our kids, we rush past business deals, but sometime slowing down a little bit is good. I mean, because what it does, there's all kind of attributes that come along with taking your time, because you can enjoy those things instead of just kind of rushing, you know, rushing by. So I think the advice I would give people is slow down a bus ride sometime is better than a private jet because it takes time and you got to learn how to spend time with each other.

Well, Kevin, thank you so much. This has been a real pleasure for us and I look forward to seeing you soon. Thank you. Steve Cap will be in touch.

The deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me, Jason Kelly. This episode was made by Stacey Wong, Anna Mazurakis, Lizzie Philip, and Victor Eveyes. Our theme music was made by Blake Maples. Our executive producers are Kelly Laferia, Ashley Honeck, and Brendan Noonam.

Sage Bowman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. Additional support from Rachel Scaramazzino and Elena Sassangelis. Thanks for listening to the deal. If you have a minute, please subscribe, rate, and review our show.

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